Oil and Multi fuel Stove Linkup - Part 1

[dlm4473]

View attachment Heating 01.pdf

Hello all,

I am looking for advice, insparation or just constructive critisim !

Currently renovating a house and will be installing a multi fuel boiler stove (Charnwood LA45iB - 10KW to heating, 2.5 to room).

Current heating is Danesmoor 15/19 oil boiler pumped to vented tank (on ground floor - hot flow rate is very poor). I have an ACV 160l unvented cylinder to solve this problem which I need to install asap (to get on with other tasks). My intention is to convert boiler to sealed system and install the tank BUT have pipework ready to go for installation of stove and buffer. This to avoid re pipping in a cramped cupboard space.

I have not yet designed pipework for Stove/Buffer (that will be part 2!) - but intend to extract heat from buffer with a Heat exchanger (thus keeping sealed system for rads and boiler).

Ideally the system will be as flexible and economic to run as possible so i do not want to prioritise boiler over stove or vice versa.

House is bungalow, approx 150msq with little room in loft. Insulation will be 90mm kingspan wall, 70mm kingspan floors and 400mm fibre in loft.

Attached at top is my current plan for installing the Water cylinder, - I would appreciate all and any views on the subject.

Thanks

 

[Dotty]

The advice is get someone in who knows what they're doing. You don't need to understand the system.

You just need faith in it. And what you're looking to do I wouldn't put faith in if I were you.

 

[dlm4473]

The advice is get someone in who knows what they're doing. You don't need to understand the system.

You just need faith in it. And what you're looking to do I wouldn't put faith in if I were you.

The only problem there croppie is that I would struggle to have faith in the people that say they "know what there doing" when they ;

1) cant answer a simple question i.e. how does a 1KW heat leak rad dissapate heat from a 10KW stove
2) Whilst professing how knowlegable they are - are apparently unaware that this system is fitted to off-the-shelf thermal stores - presumably (but i could be wrong) passing all relevant standards inc. building control and WRAS.
3) Appear to think that Danfoss (and other manufacturers) who designed and made these valves specifically for use with heat exchangers for overhead protection on solid fuel heating systems are "silly" and don't know what they are doing.

Would you have faith in that person ? or the system they installed ?

 

[Gray0689]

The only problem there croppie is that I would struggle to have faith in the people that say they "know what there doing" when they ;

1) cant answer a simple question i.e. how does a 1KW heat leak rad dissapate heat from a 10KW stove
2) Whilst professing how knowlegable they are - are apparently unaware that this system is fitted to off-the-shelf thermal stores - presumably (but i could be wrong) passing all relevant standards inc. building control and WRAS.
3) Appear to think that Danfoss (and other manufacturers) who designed and made these valves specifically for use with heat exchangers for overhead protection on solid fuel heating systems are "silly" and don't know what they are doing.

Would you have faith in that person ? or the system they installed ?

Yep probably more than you

 

[dlm4473]

Can't quite see how the second heat distributing heat exchanger will work effectively. The cold water will cool the heat exchanger, but the stove will carry on heating the store? The heat loss will be negligible.

Hot feed to Heat exchanger is on gravity flow (as is sensor) Cooled water from exchanger returns to gravity return. Difference in temp will increase gravity flow (which would just about stall at 95 degrees) more cooling performed by exchanger the faster gravity flow through exchanger - the faster cooling takes place. When temp goes below 95 in top of gravity flow circuit (hotest part of circuit) the sensor shuts off the valve.

 

[Gray0689]

Dlm
What is your profession

 

[Killy Bing]

Hot feed to Heat exchanger is on gravity flow (as is sensor) Cooled water from exchanger returns to gravity return. Difference in temp will increase gravity flow (which would just about stall at 95 degrees) more cooling performed by exchanger the faster gravity flow through exchanger - the faster cooling takes place. When temp goes below 95 in top of gravity flow circuit (hotest part of circuit) the sensor shuts off the valve.

.......so at 95 degrees on one side of the heat exchanger.....you intend to flush the other side with mains water to reduce the temp?

correct?

 

[dlm4473]

Yep probably more than you

I thought you were "out" if your going to nothing but critisise why keep posting ? You gave me advise to check out with building control - which I've done - but you can't even wait for the response before you say the system and me are incapable of doing the job !

You havn't even attemped to respond to any of the three questions above - that would be giving advice! so tell me how does a heak leak radiator of 1KW stop the water boiling in a system that is outputing 10KW ?

 

[Gray0689]

.......so at 95 degrees on one side of the heat exchanger.....you intend to flush the other side with mains water to reduce the temp?

correct?

Yep think he does
So let's sat you cool hex without busting it from the shock of the incoming cold mains
So hex gets cooled
What cools the stove as it is sitting at 95
Fire still lit still producing uncontrolled heat
It starts to boil then flashed to steam as the hex is not dissipating the heat
Increasing its volume by (come on op you should know this one)

I wouldn't like to be to near it myself

 

[Gray0689]

I thought you were "out" if your going to nothing but critisise why keep posting ? You gave me advise to check out with building control - which I've done - but you can't even wait for the response before you say the system and me are incapable of doing the job !

You havn't even attemped to respond to any of the three questions above - that would be giving advice! so tell me how does a heak leak radiator of 10KW stop the water boiling in a system that is outputing 10KW ?

Because I don't need to tell you
YOU should already know that answer
Plus it's not 10kw radiator
Check your facts

 

[Gray0689]

I thought you were "out" if your going to nothing but critisise why keep posting ? You gave me advise to check out with building control - which I've done - but you can't even wait for the response before you say the system and me are incapable of doing the job !

You havn't even attemped to respond to any of the three questions above - that would be giving advice! so tell me how does a heak leak radiator of 10KW stop the water boiling in a system that is outputing 10KW ?

But yes your correct and it's not criticism just my opinion
I'm out lol

 

[dlm4473]

Yep think he does

It starts to boil then flashed to steam as the hex is not dissipating the heat
Increasing its volume by (come on op you should know this one)

I wouldn't like to be to near it myself

ON A VENTED SYSTEM !!!!!!- WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN ! would it be exactly the same that would happen on a system with a heat leak rad when it boils ?

 

[Nostrum]

I'm not sure if radically cooling the middle of a gravity circuit will induce circulation at all. You'll have heat at top and bottom and a cool heat exchanger?

Would you not be better off with a coil in the buffer and pass cold water through this?

 

[Killy Bing]

Thermal shock......heat exchange goes bang bang.....

 

[Gray0689]

ON A VENTED SYSTEM !!!!!!- WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN ! would it be exactly the same that would happen on a system with a heat leak rad when it boils ?

Will it ok that's grand then

 

[Howsie]

Howsie - the heat exchanger IS the heat leak !

Whatever you say. Goodnight.