Changing the MCS

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Changing the MCS

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unguided1

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So many people that I speak to around the country are complaining about the MCS being too expensive for one man bands and small companies and have no idea what to do about. There have been many people on this forum asking and talking about the MCS, and saying its to expensive, especially me, well now is the time to stop whineing about it and get off our backsides and do something to claim our trade back that is rightfully ours, the trade that we have worked hard for, and trained hard for all our lives.


Mickw has a proven track record for getting something done when he got the industry and the government to adopt the boiler scrapage scheme. How many of you would have gone under with out that boost to our industry, I know I made money out of it.

He has now agreed to be our industry voice to get something done about the ridiculous MCS that has been proven to be a complete nonsense since its invention and is holding back many a good business because of its physical cost and office mentality, all well and good if your a trained office chimp, well I for one am not, I have been a heating engineer since 1979 I was trained on solid fuel, oil and gas, even more importantly I was also trained to design and install heating systems, what are the qualifications worth that I attained today absolutely nothing, the fact that I am Gas Safe registered means that I can install an appliance on to any system wether safe or dangerous doesnt matter as the only thing that is important is the appliance and right now it is the same for MCS. So I say it is time that we tell the industry and the government that they have got it wrong and it is high time that things changed for the better with more focus on the engineering of the whole system instead of turning us engineers into puppet like office chimps, If they want a QMS and I am doing something I dont want then I want to be paid for it, but why should I pass my costs on to my customer.


So Mickw has got this Blog and he is one voice, one voice will never be heard without support so back him in his fight to help the little man because without support we will lose our industry to a never ending pile of paperwork beurocrats extortionate charges with more hidden charges regulations and fine print, and that is not the trade I signed up for Trade Only: Over-regulation is the Biggest Barrier to Renewable take-up
 
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CES , so you have , you will be lucky to upset anyone hardley anyone uses it , so come on you CIPHE members go rant.
Mick , the chap at Baxi who instigated the course and had experience of MCS has left the company
 
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Its in the private members forum, You need to login to the private forum using the password in the members section of the main website.
 
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CES said:
Its in the private members forum, You need to login to the private forum using the password in the members section of the main website.
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Arrgghhhh! Another bloody Baxi forum, I suppose - only registered installers allowed!!

I'll go and look!
 
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Toddyplumb said:
Mick , the chap at Baxi who instigated the course and had experience of MCS has left the company
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Wonderful! (Mind you, his experience was with solar pv, which could provide far greater profit margins than solar thermal - different ball game, although that may be changing shortly!)

How are you getting on with their QMS Template?
 
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Flamethrower said:
To deal with the MCS and customise your QMS I can recommend the services of www.supermac.biz freelance PA who offers back office support for small businesses made my life a lot easier!
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Not much point putting that on this thread Flamethrower, were trying to do away with the need for any QMS for small businesses so cmon and join the fight for a fair deal for small independant businesses and put some encouraging words on Mickw's Blog, we hope that in the long run it will save us a fortune and put us on a better footing when pricing against the real cowboys that are big business. With a bit of luck it may also save our industry from being splintered further if the retards who invented the MCS actualy listen to the real people who actualy do the real work in our industry
 
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MCS don't want you, the small guy, to have any part of their industry. All the excuses are groundless as they only want to keep the prices high and make a shed load of money. They are part of the Summit Skills quango. These people are the ones who wanted to implement 6129 plumbing in schools for 14 year olds about 5 years ago. They don't check your work they check your paperwork and catch you out on this to fail you. They failed this guy who my teacher knew on an import ticket he submitted of a pellet boiler.
It is changing and you will be able to access it more easily. I will find out more info regarding how and bring it here to you all. At present I don't have exact information. Only bits and I don't wish to confuse anything.
 
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fuzzy said:
how do you propose we eliminate cowboys?
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Hi Fuzzy firstly I admit I do not have all the answers and considering the state of our industry niether do the muppets that are supposed to be regulating our industry but I reckon that the whole industry desperatly needs a huge shake up also as we are all agreed that rougue installers are definetly cowboys, why not have a bounty system where every time a cowboy is prosecuted who ever assists with getting them caught gets a reward, more importantly this your industry as well as mine what are your suggestions to improve it
 
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Kimou said:
MCS don't want you, the small guy, to have any part of their industry. All the excuses are groundless as they only want to keep the prices high and make a shed load of money. They are part of the Summit Skills quango. These people are the ones who wanted to implement 6129 plumbing in schools for 14 year olds about 5 years ago. They don't check your work they check your paperwork and catch you out on this to fail you. They failed this guy who my teacher knew on an import ticket he submitted of a pellet boiler.
It is changing and you will be able to access it more easily. I will find out more info regarding how and bring it here to you all. At present I don't have exact information. Only bits and I don't wish to confuse anything.
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I'm at a meeting in the House of Lords next week with APHC sustainability group, which consists of mainly big businesses, but includes other groups like Summit Skills and Zero Carbon Hub, both of whom have input to government. I'm the only person there who is anywhere close to the sharp end of the industry and my only reason for being there is to make sure they don't forget small business.

I will be getting an update on the Green Deal and MCS and I will, of course, be talking about the industry campaign - I just haven't decided yet how best to handle it! I'll keep you all posted about how I get on.
 
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fuzzy said:
how do you propose we eliminate cowboys?
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I'll suggest buying some bows and arrows, until I can come up with a much more sensible solution.


To be honest, a CLOSED book set of exams on the basics of heating and ventilating a house, wet plumbing, basic building regulations, water regulations and unvented cylinders and so on. A proviso that no examination can be taken within 4 weeks of attending a course. I find it all too easy to pass an exam when I've read the books that morning. I'd have much more difficulty if there was a time gap if I was new to the industry. If experienced then these basic exams would be quite simple.

Then subsets of exams on various forms of providing heat, i.e. gas, oil, solar, ground source, etc. A separate exam for basic electricity to be covered by plumbers and electricians and then more detailed exams for electricians.

Okay, I know it's more exams but IF THERE WAS ONE SINGLE BODY FOR PLUMBING, HEATING and ELECTRICITY instead of GasSafe, OFTEC, HETAS, MCS, REAL, CIPHE, ELECSA, NICIE, Mrs Jones's Trusted Plumbing and Heating Engineers, etc it would cut costs of registration and would also give customers a single contact point if they had an issue with a tradesman.

To me, all the above will stop those people just setting themselves up as a renewable heat source company and installing systems that don't work properly or are poorly installed. Please note there's nothing about recording phone calls, complaints procedures, etc, etc. It is purely trying to create a better standard of installation. I'm not trying to stop new companies - only wanting them to have sufficient knowledge and good installation techniques to make a good job as opposed to having great salespeople selling the wrong type of system to customers or not sticking to sensible installation standards.

As a separate topic I'd also like to see people like me who are reasonably new to the industry, having to pass a basic exam in building techniques (e.g. where to notch joists, sleeving pipes through walls, preparing walls before tiling, etc, etc). I'm sure most of us have taken an educated guess in the past when confronted with a difficulty and perhaps done jobs where we have since realised that we did something wrong.
 
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MickW said:
I'm at a meeting in the House of Lords next week with APHC sustainability group, which consists of mainly big businesses, but includes other groups like Summit Skills and Zero Carbon Hub, both of whom have input to government. I'm the only person there who is anywhere close to the sharp end of the industry and my only reason for being there is to make sure they don't forget small business.

I will be getting an update on the Green Deal and MCS and I will, of course, be talking about the industry campaign - I just haven't decided yet how best to handle it! I'll keep you all posted about how I get on.
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I hope you dont miss any of them Mick. I take exception reading on the Summitskills website about how they are "Taking the lead role in putting together part of the action plan focusing on the skills and knowledge that will be required, SummitSkills was able to draw on its bank of expertise gained by working closely day-to-day with employers and trade associations in the plumbing, electrotechnical, heating and ventilating, refrigeration and air conditioning industries. These are the people who will be responsible for installing environmental technologies."
I for one have nothing to do with summit skills. I as a small business owner have never had any dealings whatsoever and no one has ever asked about my views on the industry. Maybe its time the people who make the decisions should take a little bit more care about whom they appoint as trusted advisors.
Most of these folk wouldn't know what a heat pump was if it bit them on the chorus (rhyming slang there).:mad2:

Goes to show just who is being catered for with this MCS. A training provider advising the government? hmm...
 
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MickW said:
I'm at a meeting in the House of Lords next week with APHC sustainability group, which consists of mainly big businesses, but includes other groups like Summit Skills and Zero Carbon Hub, both of whom have input to government. I'm the only person there who is anywhere close to the sharp end of the industry and my only reason for being there is to make sure they don't forget small business.

I will be getting an update on the Green Deal and MCS and I will, of course, be talking about the industry campaign - I just haven't decided yet how best to handle it! I'll keep you all posted about how I get on.
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I can lend you a pair of size tens a lump hammer and a Kango, with a bleeding loveslave for effect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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unguided1 said:
I can lend you a pair of size tens a lump hammer and a Kango, with a bleeding loveslave for effect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thanks, Mike, but I think I'll make do with my briefing document and a few persuasive words! I might come back for the trade style attack equipment if they don't listen :icon12:
 
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MickW said:
Thanks, Mike, but I think I'll make do with my briefing document and a few persuasive words! I might come back for the trade style attack equipment if they don't listen :icon12:
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No worries Mick, are you sure that breifing document will be enough I am sure that me and the guys would be more than happy to assist with some WMC's, (Weapons of Mass Construction)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Just found this on the Electricians Forum, turns out, they are not very happy either and one of their members TedM has asked question directly from the members to Gideon Richards who apparantly is the interim CEO of the MCS.

So I already know what I will be asking so if you have any questions for him fire away cos he will be getting a phone call for an apointment in the morning,


Here is the thread from the electricians forum Questions for MCS
 
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I have just had an interesting 28 minute phone call with Gideon Richards, Chair of MCS steering group, after I criticised him on hearing an interview he gave about MCS accreditation. Needless to say, we did not agree about a few things!!

Credit where credit is due, though, he is coming to see me in the very near future and he is bringing with him the guy who is leading the current consultation on MCS.

I'm looking forward to that :)
 
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MickW said:
I have just had an interesting 28 minute phone call with Gideon Richards, Chair of MCS steering group, after I criticised him on hearing an interview he gave about MCS accreditation. Needless to say, we did not agree about a few things!!

Credit where credit is due, though, he is coming to see me in the very near future and he is bringing with him the guy who is leading the current consultation on MCS.

I'm looking forward to that :)
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I want to meet that git too
 
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we already have those exams unguided, within the original plumbing/heating quals. then there are additional quals for gas, oil, solar, heat pumps etc, so i think the model you suggest is alreay there. i do agree a single registration body would make things so much better
 
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