Advice needed............

[Old Account]

hi guys,

I am about to Install soon a huge system. I just wanted to make sure that I am able to install a system boiler in the celler.

Could you please tell me is I am able to fit a system boiler in there with a flue going throwing like the current one? Or would that be enough just sticking through the wall ?

I assume second option won’t work as it will need diverting correct ?

 

[Harvest Fields]

I service lots of what should be light commercial boilers because the manufacturers say they are domestic. Winds me up. But then then again it’s extra money so I shouldn’t complain.

 

[Old Account]

Have a look at them anyway. They're very nice n neat.

Whilst we're on that Commercial comment, have you got your commercial ticket Matchless?
I know that the meter is a U6 and the other rules and regs I am well aware of too but if the Boiler manufacturer class an appliance as Commercial you might not be qualified and therefore not insured when/if you install it.
Worth a thought!

I am also wondering why a house as you've described needs 153500 Btu's/hr? (45kw)
Is it really that big?
As Shaun said earlier, I would be having a measure up to make sure.

I also think that the section between flow and return will act more like an open by-pass than a low loss header due to it's design. That could cause issues with short cycling (in my opinion).
Maybe that's why the boiler is always at high temp and the system isn't making it?
(Sammathias said same).

Hi last,

Thanks for your and all the other inputs on this thread.

The property has 300m2 which has on every single floor ufh except from the basement which is refurbished into a work office, bathroom, utility and sleeping area.

I am currently doing a hydraulic plan with my mate from Vaillant. Attached you can see what we work on. I am going to calculate the heat loss the next days as well as determine how many kw output I require and then I will know if the meter is suitable or if it’s related to commercial works. It doesn’t seem commercial but a large domestic installation.
I agree with the bypass acting like this rather than a low loss header. But this sort of system needs one.

 

[Last Plumber]

Hi last,

Thanks for your and all the other inputs on this thread.

The property has 300m2 which has on every single floor ufh except from the basement which is refurbished into a work office, bathroom, utility and sleeping area.

I am currently doing a hydraulic plan with my mate from Vaillant. Attached you can see what we work on. I am going to calculate the heat loss the next days as well as determine how many kw output I require and then I will know if the meter is suitable or if it’s related to commercial works. It doesn’t seem commercial but a large domestic installation.
I agree with the bypass acting like this rather than a low loss header. But this sort of system needs one.

View attachment 33821

I would use a Header on a system like that yes. I was really saying that the way they have done it won't work as they intended. (if they did intend it to do the job of a header that is).

Have a look at the Facade Flue system by Vaillant if you do go down that road.
I have fitted a number of those now and they are spot on. I've terminated a few with the 45 deg bend and terminal piece in that.

 

[Old Account]

I

I would use a Header on a system like that yes. I was really saying that the way they have done it won't work as they intended. (if they did intend it to do the job of a header that is).

Have a look at the Facade Flue system by Vaillant if you do go down that road.
I have fitted a number of those now and they are spot on. I've terminated a few with the 45 deg bend and terminal piece in that.

Thank you for coming back to me.
I spoke to Vaillant today and I just double check with a system designer if the plan we have made is alright. I also asked for a product list so it will be a lot easier to pick the right components. Thank you for the advice with the flue. I definitely need to get a bigger flue in than the normal one. However, do you know if I could just use a plume kit or will I need to divert it like in the picture?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

cant use a plume kit

 

[Old Account]

cant use a plume kit

Thank you. So I will install the flue as it is currently but with the facade flue.

Would you install it the same way as it is ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Needs to be outdoor rated and depends on bigger picture eg locations

Did you heat loss the building?

 

[Last Plumber]

I


Thank you for coming back to me.
I spoke to Vaillant today and I just double check with a system designer if the plan we have made is alright. I also asked for a product list so it will be a lot easier to pick the right components. Thank you for the advice with the flue. I definitely need to get a bigger flue in than the normal one. However, do you know if I could just use a plume kit or will I need to divert it like in the picture?

Best bet is to ask Vaillant. I cannot see the full run/route/distance.
I'm sure on the 466 and 656 you can go 22 meter plus 3 elbows but the Air intake must be 4 meter or less away from the flue system connection to the Boiler.
Ask for a copy of the Commercial Systems catalogue.

 

[Old Account]

Best bet is to ask Vaillant. I cannot see the full run/route/distance.
I'm sure on the 466 and 656 you can go 22 meter plus 3 elbows but the Air intake must be 4 meter or less away from the flue system connection to the Boiler.
Ask for a copy of the Commercial Systems catalogue.

Thank you.
I just received today the catalogue and will check exactly what I need. I appreciate your help a lot as well as every other member over here.

 

[Old Account]

Attached is the file I created with a Vaillant mate. However, I phoned Vaillant many times but somehow they dont seem to understand what I am after. I am after a product list which is made for my system. The way it works in Germany is, you give them details about the property ( size, what system is currently installed and what system you are going to install, heat loss, and based on this they click through their systems and create the right hydraulic plan with a price list ( attached ) which is especially designed for your system.


Can anyone tell me how’s it works in uk it seems to me the Vaillant w
Quality is totally different and quote poor.
It also seem that Vaillant doesn’t do the ecocompact boilers over here in uk.


The list which is attached is basically made with my details and system I am going to install. The list tells you what i require for the system.


I still there something similar here in uk if so hot
W to call the list they do for you ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They don't do that

Upto you to build and price your own system and they don't offer prices direct you have to go to one of your suppliers

Sounds like you have it made in Germany

 

[Old Account]

They don't do that

Upto you to build and price your own system and they don't offer prices direct you have to go to one of your suppliers

Sounds like you have it made in Germany

Sorry shauni,you also don’t get the point what I am after. I am not after a price list with prices but I am after that someone gives me a product list of what Vaillant is producing so I am able to design it myself with Vaillant products only.

You are right the list is made in Germany and all products you see is especially for the job I am abou to do. It took us couple of minutes to design the system. Vaillant in uk should be able to have this Programm too. My mate just clicks through a program based on my details and gives me the right system with a hydraulic plan and all components required.

I did not know it’s so complicate and different then in Germany.

However, I am going back to watch football

Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Like what divcons llh controls etc look on there website

 

[Old Account]

Like what divcons llh controls etc look on there website

Sorry but don’t understand you

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sorry but don’t understand you

what are you looking from vaillant a whole product list of what they make

if so contact your uk rep and ask for a catalogue of there boilers and controls

 

[ShaunCorbs]

this is a divcon

Circulation units, GRA100 - ESBE
Heating Zone Packs > Radiant Control Ltd.
http://viessmanndirect.co.uk/files/...0b2169d/Divicon Installation Instructions.pdf

etc

 

[Old Account]

what are you looking from vaillant a whole product list of what they make

if so contact your uk rep and ask for a catalogue of there boilers and controls

That’s kind of stuff I am looking for. If you see my hydraulic plan and the list above you can see everything is done froma mate who works at Vaillant. They design the system with their products within minutes based on your details you give. But thank you shauni I will call them tomorrow to ask for the catalogue

 

[Old Account]

this is a divcon

Circulation units, GRA100 - ESBE
Heating Zone Packs > Radiant Control Ltd.
http://viessmanndirect.co.uk/files/cebc605f-f2cd-442d-b879-a64700b2169d/Divicon Installation Instructions.pdf

etc

Yes that’s the stuff I am looking for but from Vaillant. I will try to arrange an appointment with them. Perhaps the rep or designer will come out to access the job

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They won't asses the job you will need to do that and build a hydronic plan and go to your supplier eg city plumbing plumb centre etc to get prices

 

[Old Account]

So they won’t create such a hydraulic plan?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No that's for us heating engys to do

 

[Last Plumber]

Shaun's right there. Heating Engineers job over here. Unless you want to pay someone else to do it but I don't know why anyone would.
The closest you'll get from Vaillant to the kind of help you're looking for is to contact the 'commercial' rep for the type of job you're looking at there. You'll still need to have all the fact and figures but they will help you with the material list if you need it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Shaun's right there. Heating Engineers job over here. Unless you want to pay someone else to do it but I don't know why anyone would.
The closest you'll get from Vaillant to the kind of help you're looking for is to contact the 'commercial' rep for the type of job you're looking at there. You'll still need to have all the fact and figures but they will help you with the material list if you need it.

Thing is it's not a commercial system/ size so he might get arsey with you also will tell you to phone the domestic side up

 

[Last Plumber]

Thing is it's not a commercial system/ size so he might get arsey with you also will tell you to phone the domestic side up

That is very true. Depends on the rep.
All the info is in that Commercial catalogue I told you to get hold of anyway. We have always specified our own work whatever the size.

 

[Old Account]

That is very true. Depends on the rep.
All the info is in that Commercial catalogue I told you to get hold of anyway. We have always specified our own work whatever the size.

Hey last,

I appreciate the opinions and advise I got from you and Shaun. I already got the catalogue for commercial but it’s more commercial boilers etc... it will not suit the system I am thinking off. It is first of all too big and second,y I wouldn’t be able to install it anyway.

They will get back to me tomorrow regarding my design and figures. One of the designer from Vaillant will contact me so I am hoping to get the right answer if not I am going to design it myself and have to choose the parts Online. I would have thought it is very similar like in Germany but it doesn’t seem like it but I will definitely get the right flue you were recommending to me. I will also keep you updated with the installation which I will do in the next two weeks.

I thank you and all the other people for now, it is definitely much appreciated from my site

 

[Old Account]

What do you think also why haven't you calculated the gas load 45kw boiler takes 5m3/h hope they don't have any other appliances

If I install vaillany ecoTec 637 system boiler it will use 4.0m3/h is that correct t ? So if I have g4 meter which is capable of 6m3/h do you think by having a gas hob it won’t be enough and dangerous ?

I guess the best bet is to calculate the heat loss again and check how many kw I will need for the property is that the way forward ? Does this sound ok if not how would you do it and determine which boiler you require ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Correct heat loss the property where there are rads also take into account what the ufh has been rated at has it been designed correctly

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Hey last,

I appreciate the opinions and advise I got from you and Shaun. I already got the catalogue for commercial but it’s more commercial boilers etc... it will not suit the system I am thinking off. It is first of all too big and second,y I wouldn’t be able to install it anyway.

They will get back to me tomorrow regarding my design and figures. One of the designer from Vaillant will contact me so I am hoping to get the right answer if not I am going to design it myself and have to choose the parts Online. I would have thought it is very similar like in Germany but it doesn’t seem like it but I will definitely get the right flue you were recommending to me. I will also keep you updated with the installation which I will do in the next two weeks.

I thank you and all the other people for now, it is definitely much appreciated from my site

How can you install it also price it when you haven't decided/ designed the kit that you need also how have you given them a price ?

 

[Old Account]

Correct heat loss the property where there are rads also take into account what the ufh has been rated at has it been designed correctly

I cannot tell you if the ufh is designed properly. It’s not cheap to lift oak wood I am hoping that people haven’t used 6mm ply,on top of it 18mm and then 16-18mm oak wood. If that’s the case they can what ages for their heat. I do not even know what has been used as ufh , what Typ of insulation or method.

 

[Old Account]

How can you install it also price it when you haven't decided/ designed the kit that you need also how have you given them a price ?

I haven’t priced it yet but will do this week. I will design the system myself if they do not have such list. It ain’t hard .. I just wanted to use Vaillant products only. Don’t you worry the system will be up and running in 3/4weeks time.