What is the point!

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TheRedBaron

I passed my level 3 plumbing and heating certificate in June 2012 at South Worcestershire College, and since then have tried endlessly to find work with a plumber to gain my level 2 and then 3 NVQ. I live in the GL55 area and No one will take Me on! What is the point!! I used all My savings to do the course and for what??? Nothing thats what !! I GIVE UP!
 
Did you do any research before you parted ith your savings? Did you find out if you could gain the experience? Or did ou just pay the money and hope for the best?
 
The point is mate, no one wants to know because you only have college experience and you'll want proper money not the pennies apprentices are on! you have many other skills to offer though.

I along with a few other here are fast course/trackers/numpties as we're called. NOT getting into the debate AGAIN fast trackers blah blah blah, old school time served, done my time blah blah blah.

Don't give up, depends on what you need to live on depends whether you can earn a living, set up on your own........ it'll take time, double (at least) what you think to build a customer base.

When you start using suppliers, stay with one or two and you'll see the same faces, listen to the conversations, in your own mind separate the wheat from the chaff and approach them directly, say 'got anything interesting coming up?' you may get blanked but I've worked my way into a couple of excellent jobs and networked that way.

Don't be afraid to walk away from jobs either, take all the small stuff, toilet syphons inlet valves, ball valves build your confidence SLOWLY! build your tools up slowly.

Its not what you know its who you know, you may take a job on and it goes pear shape, more complicated, then it is very lonely, before you take anything to risky on its good to have a couple of mates in your phone who you can ask for help.

I have a couple of GOOD mates, the rest, well as in life they promise you the earth and deliver nothing.

Four things,

1. your up against it being a fast tracker, fact.
2. no one wants to help train the competition.
3. its way harder an industry than ANYONE will have you believe, not just work wise but paper work etc.
4. its not going to come to you, no matter how many jobs you apply for, you've got to make it happen.

On a final note, I am a fast tracker, not proud or upset by it, I just am and now I have time served plumbers calling me for work! I have people asking me for apprenticeships! I can work as quickly as accurately as a lot of time served and three and half years I'm still here.......... JUST :6:
 
Apart from being a fast tracker, the advice is surpringly honest and good, give the man a diploma :p (hes been here a while now so we have to accept he's ok). However Im a slow tracker (college but no apprentiship, did it at 45 and worked bloody hard since to keep the old head above water) so I'm not the perfect model either
 
does make me smile when I hear that "fact track" thing mentioned. By the time I take my acs I will have been fast tracking for three and a half years :banghead:
 
Cheer up, cannot Plumb over WiFi , Unlike Electronics-TV mending,Car Makers.

Plumbing has a future. (Even beginner Police getting less!)
 
zzzjim said:
Cheer up, cannot Plumb over WiFi , Unlike Electronics-TV mending,Car Makers.

Plumbing has a future. (Even beginner Police getting less!)
Click to expand...

Police get 19k now as a starting salay, as a self employed plumber you would be lucky to earn that after 3 or more years trading.
 
So the moral of the story is, don't spend your hard earned on plumbing courses. Just spend the cash on implants and call yourself crystal :bow:
 
TheRedBaron said:
I passed my level 3 plumbing and heating certificate in June 2012 at South Worcestershire College, and since then have tried endlessly to find work with a plumber to gain my level 2 and then 3 NVQ. I live in the GL55 area and No one will take Me on! What is the point!! I used all My savings to do the course and for what??? Nothing thats what !! I GIVE UP!
Click to expand...

The secret squirrel has given you some real good advice and told you how it is but it is not impossible.even when a plumber starts his own business it's very rare that they pack in there 40 hours a week on paye plumbing for some one else buy a van and start for them selfs and the phone rings.very often they work nights weekends to build a customer base before making the commitment.but if you do a good job they will tell people and the phone will ring.i always give cards out on every job a least 15 I have 2000 a year about £200.best money spent.it was about 12 months for me to build up a good customer base before my work mate of 18 years and my last apprentice of 6 years could join me but we now have a good team.but there is no way all of us could have packed are full time paye jobs in from day one as I think we would have failed.if you do go down the route of buying a van and working for yourself pm me and I will give you a number that might give you the odd job.all the best for your future.
 
TheRedBaron said:
I passed my level 3 plumbing and heating certificate in June 2012 at South Worcestershire College, and since then have tried endlessly to find work with a plumber to gain my level 2 and then 3 NVQ. I live in the GL55 area and No one will take Me on! What is the point!! I used all My savings to do the course and for what??? Nothing thats what !! I GIVE UP!
Click to expand...

I can sympathise with your situation and you need to understand it is not all of your own making.

There other factors involved here such as numbers of people training, lack of general opportunities for the working classes that don't usually attend university, higher numbers of apprentices being trained, government marketing of skills shortages when there were none, aggressive marketing of courses by trusted organisations which anyone would believe to be true.

In addition there is always those who will tell you to work harder or get off your backside, but it is not that easy. Many people have family contacts, social contacts who help. Others have sheer tenacity and determination which is beyond most of us - some of us had it easy in the past compared to you guys starting out now.

Your quals will reflect that you tried, but did not get the social breaks that some of us had in a less demanding economic climate. Its not all bad and you will have learned some skills and knowledge through attending the courses alone - these will come in handy in the future at some stage.

Good luck!
 
You also have to actually enjoy plumbing, do you enjoy plumbing or are you driven solely by £££ signs?
 
£££ signs are what used to drag me out of bed in the morning. Now it is a case of i'm up anyway so i might as well do something.
I stopped enjoying this many years ago.
 
Thanks for the advice, just having a bad few days :( I've told the local Plumbers I'l work for Apprentice wages, but even then there not interested. I've done two years at college and think it would be a waste to throw it all away.

 
TheRedBaron said:
Thanks for the advice, just having a bad few days :( I've told the local Plumbers I'l work for Apprentice wages, but even then there not interested. I've done two years at college and think it would be a waste to throw it all away.
Click to expand...

Everybody has a low spot, shake it off and dig in.
 
TheRedBaron said:
Thanks for the advice, just having a bad few days :( I've told the local Plumbers I'l work for Apprentice wages, but even then there not interested. I've done two years at college and think it would be a waste to throw it all away.
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It is not that they are not interested. Many plumbing firms did and would take apprentices or trainees on if they could. The are being realistic.
For most the work and money just isn't there to employ someone even on apprentice wages. People are employed as they always have been, on supply and demand
Work for free or i'll pay to work will no longer work either as most who entertained that before have been burned by training the future opposition and wised up
It is a tough old world. If you are totally committed and focused enough you can succeed even in hard times.
If not, if nothing else you have learned a lesson in life.
 
There's been a triple whammy going on over the last few years.

1) With newbuild still in the doldrums after more or less shutting down back in 2009/10, there are a lot of blokes who used to be doing site work trying to make a living in the domestic RMI sector
2) The relaxation of immigration controls and the accession of the east european states to the EU, has caused a large number of incoming migrants.
3) The silly media stories about plumbers earning £££££s spawned a raft of training agencies to meet a ridiculous and unjustified demand. They now have their overheads and payrolls to meet, so although the media stories have slackened off, these training agencies pump up the marketing hype to keep the flow of wannabes coming.

All this means that supply is outstripping demand - and if established tradesmen are struggling to find enough work, they aren't going to be in a position to take on apprentices.

For what its worth, all three factors will ease off - in fact I think some of them already are easing. There is an unfulfilled housing demand that is slowly starting to be felt in the new build sector - although its very patchy. Some of the migrants have returned home, as movements in exchange rates and improvements in their domestic economies tip the balance. Finally, I think that more training agencies are going broke than are starting up.

Out of each generation, some people will enter the labour market at a high point in the economic cycle, and some will enter at a low point. I know that this isn't much consolation now, but its just a fact of life.

I entered the job market in the early 80s, and had a series of rubbish jobs which just about paid the rent. I think most people of my age had a similar experience. I had a mate with a degree in astrophysics who was working as a motorbike courier, because it was the only job he could get.
 
It's a few years since I first came on here looking for help to be a plumber. Bad timing on my point as a worldwide ressesion took grip. All the plumbers working on site who couldn't get work started to go self employed. Lots of new vans and advertisements appeared in local papers. It's understandable that plumbers had to start looking after themselves. Every new plumber is a threat to their livelihood .the black market always thrives when times are bad and everybody seems to know someone who can plumb. Everyone tells me to go self employed but I've got a lot to learn yet. I want to work along side a good plumber for a few years. The grass is always greener. Hard work is not enough, you need luck, finding a plumber who needs help and who is willing to help you along the way. It will pick up eventually but can can you wait, I will.
 
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It is not just the world of plumbing. No matter what course your career takes the current climate is a hard. We have a local upholsterer who gave up taking on apprentices because he was creating future competition. At the moment he is mobbed with work but still won't give in. We too have reached the point where another permanent set of hands would help but I have no confidence in what this government is doing to commit. As a small concern any additional employee - unpaid or otherwise - presents a huge increase in over head, insurance and admin so the recovery when it comes has to be a robust one for us to dip our toes.
 
nickelarsed said:
does make me smile when I hear that "fact track" thing mentioned. By the time I take my acs I will have been fast tracking for three and a half years :banghead:
Click to expand...
what were you doing inn these 3 and half years..?working full time as a plumber,?
 
When things are at rock bottom they can only go one way and that's up! Good luck mate and it will get better! I work for a flood contractor now there no plumbing work, they are dead busy, signs of the times mate.
 
blade11 said:
what were you doing inn these 3 and half years..?working full time as a plumber,?
Click to expand...

spent the first year doing odd jobs for people and working for free for some of the local plumbers, then when I was quick and competent enough I went and contracted smashing bathrooms in and out for the council. Then when I made enough money to pay off the credit cards and live off more than the odd bowl of rice :nopity:I started putting myself about self employed, and sub all my gas work out to the GSR I worked for free for at the start. In return I jump on his gas jobs on a day rate and get my gas hours too. Gas portfolio is big enough now really, I'll take my acs in the spring/summer.
 
I took a job where I work 6 days and get 7 off so I can then do my plumbing jobs when they come in,I've had nothing for months but it's a job I enjoy doin so you have to make sacrifices,fingers crossed i'll get there eventually it takes hard work and commitment.keep your chin up
 
i started off with a bully of a boss, £50 a week for 2 years! hated every moment of it, was going to pack it in , but then i got a job off a nother bloke! really good , learned me everything i know! worked for him for 3 years for £120 a week!! verry poor money for 5 years of work , sometimes having to work till 10 at night with no extra pay, i stuck to it working as hard as i could, now i got a job with local council , good pay and van to go home with! like they say , every dog has its's day!! stick too , somethings bound to come up!
 
Fair play to you mate. My helper grumbles at 60 a day! Plus I give the begger lunch / scrap money.
 
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These young uns would not know what hit them on yts money £30/per week eeegh by gum they wer days! memories! Where manufactuerers used you as cheap labour.
 
you old boys moan about how much you was on back in the days. but look how much stuff has gone up, minimum london living wage is now £8PH

I bet car insurance wasnt 2400 a month
single buss journey £2.30

just saying :)

But back on the topic.

I dont think companys like if you already have a level 2-3 if your under 21 as they dont get funding. There are apprenticeships out there you just got to find them.
 
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Noxer said:
you old boys moan about how much you was on back in the days. but look how much stuff has gone up, minimum london living wage is now £8PH

I bet car insurance wasnt 2400 a month
single buss journey £2.30

just saying :)

But back on the topic.

I dont think companys like if you already have a level 2-3 if your under 21 as they dont get funding. There are apprenticeships out there you just got to find them.
Click to expand...

And you could buy a house for a fiver!
 
Jack it in, why bother. Get into something else its too hard.

more work for me...Haha
 
Noxer said:
you old boys moan about how much you was on back in the days. but look how much stuff has gone up, minimum london living wage is now £8PH

I bet car insurance wasnt 2400 a month
single buss journey £2.30

just saying :)

But back on the topic.

I dont think companys like if you already have a level 2-3 if your under 21 as they dont get funding. There are apprenticeships out there you just got to find them.
Click to expand...


Blimey! your insurance is £28,000 a year!? What you driving a Mclaren F1 car to jobs?
 
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Noxer said:
you old boys moan about how much you was on back in the days. but look how much stuff has gone up, minimum london living wage is now £8PH

I bet car insurance wasnt 2400 a month
Click to expand...

£28800/yr!!! What are you driving? a Lambo.

If you put it in perspective things are not much different.
18 year old 2nd year apprentice 1976, wages around 40p/hr, insurance for a capri £230??odds. The graded apprentice rate today of £6.43 would make that about £3700 to insure it. I managed because i worked 12+ hr days and 7 days a week.
Petrol was 46p/gallon and **** were 23p for 10 bensons. Beer was about 40p a pint.
Compare that with todays wages and petrol is much the same, **** are half price and the beer is double!!


Noxer said:
I dont think companys like if you already have a level 2-3 if your under 21 as they dont get funding. There are apprenticeships out there you just got to find them.
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Companies don't particularly like you having a level 2 or 3 as that is not the way it is done. Someone really needs to point out to those leading youngsters down a blind alley that with trades you need to get the job before you get the qual. A (S)NVQ is not like an O level.
Btw the funding wouldn't pay for your bacon rolls. It is not an issue.

Times are hard and there is little demand for new starts but there are a few places for the (un)lucky.
 
Daily Star last week ; shortage of all tradesmen, most of all plumbers. Not an advertisement Came from a professional body . Obviously not talked to any plumbers before they printed id it.
 
At 28 I jacked my office job and went labouring on the building sites for agency, surprising making more money due to long hrs, got talking to the plumbers/pipefitters on site and after a few months got myself an interview as a apprentice... I had to wait another 5mths for a start but it eventully came. They put me through levels 2 & 3 and all my gas quals.

Stay positive, try some of the big companies websites they are sometimes seeking apprentices eg balfour beatty, mitie, norland, carillion, you can subscribe to their job mailing lists.
Try some of the local commercial companies who are more likely to take on apprentices to help their installers. You may start out cuting thousands of peices of unistrut and screwed rod but its all part of the process.
 
I hope you find something soon mate,

I myself am trying to get an apprenticeship in plumbing, if we want it enough we will get it!
 
TheRedBaron said:


Is that supposed to be helpful??????
Click to expand...

im from South Africa & was looking at the UK Gumtree site
i see lots of jobs for plumbers etc-both permanent & temp/contract.
dont know if theres any jobs in your area but i think its worth checking out, if u have not done so already.


wish u all the best.

im self employed- which is not saying much
and i collect & sort scrap metal in addition to plumbing.
also use my van to move stuff for people etc
whatever i can find to earn money...........
 
Ive been in and out of work in the past few years,been in the game 25 years,and my mum says I am the best plumber in the world,cause I changed a mid position valve for her this morning,next week she will be calling me a t*** again.
 
thats life

same with me- i do something at home - everyones happy
then, when im busy & getting jobs but my mom wants something done at home-which im unable to do due to being too busy, im useless etc
 
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