How to solder vertical joints

[Best]

Have a laugh at this video teaching you how to solder a vertical joint properly.
Amazing how some people are so confident and think they can use their expertise to enlighten others.
Seems I have been doing it all wrong. :smile:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjFOTGueQc

 

[jaydebruyne]

Tbh I've had a fitting red hot and it's been fine also if you want dip the end of your solder in the flux a bit if you think your too hot

Will give it another bash tomorrow.. Its time for wine and a film about now

Cheers Sean, appreciate the help!!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Will give it another bash tomorrow.. Its time for wine and a film about now

Cheers Sean, appreciate the help!!

Np and tbh if you get a blob or run don't worrie too much as it happens and your never too far from a file or sandpaper

 

[jaydebruyne]

Np and tbh if you get a blob or run don't worrie too much as it happens and your never too far from a file or sandpaper

Okie dokes ... I've a length of 15 and 22 and a load of fittings and have rigged up a board on the back of my cupboard door with clips to solder on, I'm determined to get confident before I go back to work lol

 

[Stanios]

Id rather murder the joint with solder and flux than run risk of leaks.. Last guy I worked for was abit of perfectionist and wouldnt let me solder..would be fine but his joints leaked on half of the jobs incluidng about 4 leaks on new 28mm boiler install.
Didnt help that we only used normal propane, I since learned that Mapp is the way to go

 

[jaydebruyne]

Id rather murder the joint with solder and flux than run risk of leaks.. Last guy I worked for was abit of perfectionist and wouldnt let me solder..would be fine but his joints leaked on half of the jobs incluidng about 4 leaks on new 28mm boiler install.
Didnt help that we only used normal propane, I since learned that Mapp is the way to go

Propane is fine, its just not as hot as mapp so takes a little longer..

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Propane is fine, its just not as hot as mapp so takes a little longer..

Anything over 28 I use map

 

[jaydebruyne]

Anything over 28 I use map

Furry muff.. That's why I love this place.. Always learning!!!

 

[Best]

Propane is more than good enough for soldering most plumbing - even above 28mm.
Using a Surefire torch with propane is actually too hot. Remember it's called a brazing torch!
I spent most of my life using a standard blow lamp onto a 2 metre hose attached to a BUTANE gas bottle!!! And it was normally more than capable of doing any joint and very fast on 15 & 22mm. After all, if the solder is melting all around joint, the joint is about at its proper soldering heat. It is not a weld you are doing!
I blame bad soldering mainly on lack of training and wrong flux & its lack of use as well as overheating. Adding a dot of flux to the tip of the wire solder as you solder means the joint stays fluxed & clean & solder flows & capillarys well. You can't solder if you didn't have flux, so why expect to over heat a fitting & for a long period without adding flux constantly? Joint simply oxidises including the edge of the fitting & solder won't stick or flow right. Sometimes danger of pipes being slightly out of line due to walls out of shape if pipes are clipped etc & this can mean pipe is open fractionally more to one side of fitting. This can cause the solder to not stay to the side neatly. So try to keep pipes straight. I know my joints will not leak - ever & I just turn the water on without any worry of any leak. My choice of flux (traditional grease based) is a great flowing flux & gentle on pipe & a big advantage IMO.

 

[Stanios]

Sure If you are experienced you can probably solder with your lighter right?
If standard propane is used on big fitting and you still use same technique as for 15mm where you hold torch on one point of fitting and prod solder into one point you will end up with a leaky fitting. Whilst Mapp gas doesnt require you to be heating the fitting forever at several angles so I use Mapp.

 

[chris watkins]

Anything over 28 I use map

I just use a bigger nozzle !! As per Best post above.

To highlight just how good the resin based fluxes are I once pull out two 15mm coupling which had remained leak free with 8 floors head above for 35years, unsoldered.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Propane is more than good enough for soldering most plumbing - even above 28mm.
Using a Surefire torch with propane is actually too hot. Remember it's called a brazing torch!
I spent most of my life using a standard blow lamp onto a 2 metre hose attached to a BUTANE gas bottle!!! And it was normally more than capable of doing any joint and very fast on 15 & 22mm. After all, if the solder is melting all around joint, the joint is about at its proper soldering heat. It is not a weld you are doing!
I blame bad soldering mainly on lack of training and wrong flux & its lack of use as well as overheating. Adding a dot of flux to the tip of the wire solder as you solder means the joint stays fluxed & clean & solder flows & capillarys well. You can't solder if you didn't have flux, so why expect to over heat a fitting & for a long period without adding flux constantly? Joint simply oxidises including the edge of the fitting & solder won't stick or flow right. Sometimes danger of pipes being slightly out of line due to walls out of shape if pipes are clipped etc & this can mean pipe is open fractionally more to one side of fitting. This can cause the solder to not stay to the side neatly. So try to keep pipes straight. I know my joints will not leak - ever & I just turn the water on without any worry of any leak. My choice of flux (traditional grease based) is a great flowing flux & gentle on pipe & a big advantage IMO.

Is this the flux you're talking about best?

 

[chris watkins]

TEMPLER'S 'Telux' Solde Flux - 50g Tin, VANSO9, SO9 | The Workshop Warehouse

Or this one, they are very similar & all resin based.

 

[jaydebruyne]

TEMPLER'S 'Telux' Solde Flux - 50g Tin, VANSO9, SO9 | The Workshop Warehouse

Or this one, they are very similar & all resin based.

Can only seem to get that one online :/

 

[Best]

Is this the flux you're talking about best?

Yes, that's the Yorkshire type which is nearly identical to the Fluxite grease based.
But I wouldn't pay that price in your link! Retail price of £25! I get it for probably less than £10 for a large tin.

 

[Best]

Sure If you are experienced you can probably solder with your lighter right?
If standard propane is used on big fitting and you still use same technique as for 15mm where you hold torch on one point of fitting and prod solder into one point you will end up with a leaky fitting. Whilst Mapp gas doesnt require you to be heating the fitting forever at several angles so I use Mapp.

I disagree with just holding the torch at one point for any size of fitting with any gas. Although on 15mm it certainly will work well, if you really had to in an awkward place.
I think you should always hold the lamp alternatively at opposite two sides of the fitting, which is normally very possible- and doesn't need swinging the torch around. But if you have the space, then why not?
You only need a certain heat and butane is more than good enough for 28mm and you can use a small nozzle. Leaded solder needs less heat. Although Propane especially on a Surefire torch is a little bit quicker and great for wet pipes or in freezing conditions.
I actually think that fittings are being overheated. I challenge anyone to reduce the heat going on a fitting & back off the distance from the torch when solder can flow. It will solder very fast on 15mm up to 28mm

 

[Stanios]

I disagree with just holding the torch at one point for any size of fitting with any gas. Although on 15mm it certainly will work well, if you really had to in an awkward place.
I think you should always hold the lamp alternatively at opposite two sides of the fitting, which is normally very possible- and doesn't need swinging the torch around. But if you have the space, then why not?
You only need a certain heat and butane is more than good enough for 28mm and you can use a small nozzle. Leaded solder needs less heat. Although Propane especially on a Surefire torch is a little bit quicker and great for wet pipes or in freezing conditions.
I actually think that fittings are being overheated. I challenge anyone to reduce the heat going on a fitting & back off the distance from the torch when solder can flow. It will solder very fast on 15mm up to 28mm

I think overheating is easier to spot than underheating. If its not heated enough you'l have solder melting but not running inside and coming all the way round, same again if a novice applies heat to one point only. If you over heat even a novice can see the solder just drips off and nothing is going into the fitting. Using hotter Map would reduce chance of not heating the fitting enough, for someone who is not very good at soldering.

 

[jaydebruyne]

I think overheating is easier to spot than underheating. If its not heated enough you'l have solder melting but not running inside and coming all the way round, same again if a novice applies heat to one point only. If you over heat even a novice can see the solder just drips off and nothing is going into the fitting. Using hotter Map would reduce chance of not heating the fitting enough, for someone who is not very good at soldering.

But if the fitting isn't hot enough the solder wouldn't melt. As soon as the solder melts the fitting is hot enough and as long as there is flux the solder will run. I agree with your comment about the even heating. But tbh, novice or veteran the same applies. You can get plumbers who have been in the game for years who still can't solder for ****, and newbies who seem to just pick it up and are brilliant at it.

With regards to mapp vs propane, the only difference is the temperature so propane just takes longer as it's a little cooler. Using mapp will not prevent someone underheating a fitting. The user prevents the fitting being underheated wether they are using mapp or propane.

 

[Best]

Yes, I do try to slightly overheat the fitting after I get solder into it to make sure it's all heated. But blasting a very strong flame for a minute or more at the fitting like that 'Mr Sodder' American in the video is stupid. I guess it's just what you are used to doing. I usually heat leaded soldering by torch in one hand & solder reel in other until I get it soldered, then I lift a rag if fitting needs a wipe of the solder to tidy it, while keeping adding heat with torch.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Anyway, just did a few joints and pressure tested it (pic below) and all is well in the world. I'm not really sure why I worry about soldering as of yet I've not had a joint leak. But I do still need the practise just to build my confidence I reckon. Yeah this is how I spend my spare time - saddo I know!!!!!

 

[spanner]

Sod it I never seen any heat gun go so cherry red at the tip. I honestly thought something was going wrong as soon as I see the tip go red like that..??

 

[jaydebruyne]

Sod it I never seen any heat gun go so cherry red at the tip. I honestly thought something was going wrong as soon as I see the tip go red like that..??

You got the superfire or surefire 2??? Lol I was the same...

 

[spanner]

Lolz I couldn't watch at first. I was thinking jheez WTF and OMG I've never seen this..
And at the end of all that... he only soldiered sodden it . We all know how to solder vertical.. Actually I'm thinking he's showing off the heat gun after I bared to watch it to the end. And as for getting a heat source like that..i must say a BIG NO to that... lolz

 

[sammathias]

basically with a pencil just draw a couple mm off the coupling around the hole pipe and the solder wont run past the pencil mark. unless youre very excited!

 

[jaydebruyne]

basically with a pencil just draw a couple mm off the coupling around the hole pipe and the solder wont run past the pencil mark. unless youre very excited!

You got time to do that on I very joint?

 

[sammathias]

yeh takes aproximately 5 seconds?

 

[nicro3]

Stand on your head

 

[joni os]

Not if you lose pencils like I do