green deal

[roguetrader]

im signing up to be a green deal installer ive paid NAPIT to come out to check one of our installs they also check to see if your set up right before they make you an accredited green deal installer, my name is down with plumb center for their 5 day course to be a green deal accessor.
just wondering if anyone is else going for it and what do they think.

 

[Rob Sale]

I still struggle to see how they can guarantee how a householder will save money on their bills.

Some customers will use their new timers and programmable thermostats as they are told.

Others will simply leave on manual and leave turned up to 22 + degrees.


I can see another PPI style claim era coming very very soon :ack2:.

Yep agree Also by law your meant to give them apr rate on lending and green deal is not telling folk that. I see big claims just big cause of the apr rate not being explained and shown.

 

[snoopy8888]

so this is just a bank loan for people who can't get a loan or remortgage their house.

 

[Rob Sale]

so this is just a bank loan for people who can't get a loan or remortgage their house.

Except you pay it off on your energy bill.

 

[snoopy8888]

Except you pay it off on your energy bill.

do you mean the monthly loan payment is added to the energy bill instead of direct debit payment from a bank ?

 

[CES]

Green Deal payments are added on to the electricity bill at an agreed rate over an agreed amount of time. Certain items are paid over certain number of years. A boiler for instance is paid back over 10 years (hence why some of the manufacturers are upping their warranties - as Green Deal providers have to warranty the installed item over the life of the green deal loan).
Whether you get the green deal is dependent on what savings can be made over your energy usage and the savings made by installing new measures (e.g. cavity wall etc).
For example, If your energy bills are say £100 / month and by installing loft insulation at a cost of £300 it cuts it down to £95 then your saving is £5 /month. At £300 install cost it would take 5 years to pay back the cost. If this is shorter than the expected lifetime of the measure then it will be eligible for the Green deal finance.
There's a lot of misinformation out there about the Green deal, most of it from the press who are assuming a lot of stuff which still hasn't been decided upon in Government. The jury is still out as to whether it will work as far as I'm concerned, but one things for sure, someone is making money out of this and it sure as hell isn't us.

 

[deandive]

yes but the total amount cannot be more than the customer is already paying so for instance if they pay £100 per month now once the measures they are installed they would still pay £100 per month until the measures are paid for..... or thats how I read it? ;-)

 

[deandive]

Or what CES said we must have been typing at the same time lol

 

[REDSAW]

why do i keep thinking of 'alan ball'?

 

[SimonG]

why do i keep thinking of 'alan ball'?

whatever floats your boat

maybe johnny ball

 

[Ray Stafford]

yes but the total amount cannot be more than the customer is already paying so for instance if they pay £100 per month now once the measures they are installed they would still pay £100 per month until the measures are paid for..... or thats how I read it? ;-)

This is the bit that I don't get.

The deal passes with the property, so the next owner "inherits" both the improvement measure, and the higher energy bills.

Lets say a family live in a house, they have 3 teenage girls, and granny lives with them. They use tons of hot water and the heating is on a lot because granny feels the cold and is always at home.

Their fuel bill is therefore large, and the calculation justifies solar thermal hot water and ASHP. Big costs, but big savings.

Then they sell the house to a single bloke who is a long distance lorry driver, who spends a lot of time away from home, likes a coolish house, and just has a quick shower.

Is he then saddled with paying back measures that made perfect sense for the first owner, but no sense at all for him?

 

[lame plumber]

wouldnt buy a house with debt attached personally, and you wouldnt get a mortgage to cover any debt existing, so looks like the vendors will have to clear the debt to sell and as has been stated in the press the loans companies involved want all the interest owed on the outstanding years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ray Stafford]

wouldnt buy a house with debt attached personally, and you wouldnt get a mortgage to cover any debt existing, so looks like the vendors will have to clear the debt to sell and as has been stated in the press the loans companies involved want all the interest owed on the outstanding years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I might, but I would certainly use it to knock down the price. I think its one of these "bright ideas" that really hasn't been thought through.

The only people I can see it really working for is private landlords who intend to keep the property for years - they get free infrastructure upgrade at the tenants expense. For everyone else - too many unknown variables.

 

[deandive]

The biggest problem as far as I can see it is that the only people who qualify are those on benefits, so the only people who will be better off are those who cannot or choose not to work and their private landlords. the qualification criterior puts people into three groups the cant pays (detailed above) the can pays ( you and me who work) and social housing the only measures that the can pays qualify for are external rendering. i suppose we could look at it as an extension of the benefits system.........bet Mark Group are rubbing their hands together though the directors stand to become very rich off the back of the green deal

 

[jimk280]

The only people who will gain some benefit is the utilities providers e.g. british Gas etc. They are Green deal providers, will train their guys to be assessors then use their employees as installers. We were solar PV installers a few years back, spent loads getting qualified, busted a gut on the paperwork and constant updating of the quality manuals. did just enough installs to possibly break even. Green Deal is another warmfront scheme in disguise. It will benefit the corporate companies, the training establishments and the competent person schemes. Don't waste your money on this, But good luck if you have, I hope it works for you

 

[snoopy8888]

if you spend £10k on a green deal will it add £10k to the value of the house ?

 

[Mattw]

yes but the total amount cannot be more than the customer is already paying so for instance if they pay £100 per month now once the measures they are installed they would still pay £100 per month until the measures are paid for..... or thats how I read it? ;-)

That is not correct. There are three parts to a green deal assessment. The energy performance certificate which shows typical savings, based on standard occupancy. Then there is the occupancy assessment. This tailors the EPC results for the current occupier and the result is a Green Deal Advice Report (GDAR).

The GDAR (amoungst other things) shows the client how their potential savings compares to the typical savings stated in the EPC. Now as the loan stays with the property (intheory) and so could cover multiple occupants over the life of the GD plan. The loan amount/repayment rate is based on the typical savings shown by the EPC.

This means that higher than typical energy users will save more and actually have a net saving on their fuel bills (including loan repayment). BUT lower than typical energy users can actually end up with a net increase in their energy bills.

Then you have to factor in ECO, which are the subsidies. This is split in to 3 groups:

- Affordable Warmth, so those who would normally have got CERT funding for insulation.
- Carbon Reduction, aimed at hard to treat properties or off mains gas areas
- Communities, Aimed at the areas considered to be the 15% worst off in the country.

I agree about the paperwork. When I was just doing domestic EPCs I would need 2-3 sides of A4, business energy audits I would use 2-4 sides of A4. For a domestic green deal assessment I need 19 sides of A4 and may have to keep my paper work for 30+ years.

It certainly won't be for everyone. I'm a lower than average energy user so even with the subsidy it is not worth getting solid wall insulation on my property.

I did say there were three parts to a green deal assessment. The third is the assessor has to give advice to the household on how they could save energy costs through no-cost measures. So human behaviour, setting controls correctly etc..