Am I a bad customer / job magnet

[P J F PLUMBING]

Hi guys I'm having a nightmare of late !!!! I started a bbu to combi change over last Tuesday the customer was hardwork from hour one I dug up the floor buryed the pipes except the gas all done right. came back Wednesday there was an atmosphere a. Bad one so carried on pipe work trvs ect . Came back Thursday with my roofer we put the flue though a flat roof on the out building and it was pouring down with rain finished and took a look thought it didn't look right as there was a opening window 650 to the right in the mean time I had problems with the pipe work from the old bbu to the a.c only had upstairs rads working I left the boiler and gas left off so called a mate to come in on the Friday the atmosphere was really bad we found the pipe work problem which was a mess under the front room floor and then I had a pinhole in a brand new length of 28 mm copper !! I then took another look at the flue before I commissioned and turned on the gas and boiler realised it was wrong genuine mistake spoke to the customer she went mad !! And said leave we not paying so I turned off the boiler gas ect and left . She's called a family member who is a gas engineer and gas safe and said its wrong which I new but they say they can smell fumes in the bedroom !! I'm frantic I called gas safe yesterday and explained and they said I have to wait till the inspection then sort things after . I new this job was a complete nightmare since I started now it's just a f up thoughts please

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

I have done much bigger jobs than this I call this ONE OF THOSE JOBS !! Started sh!7 got worse then ended sh!7 I've started my epic letter

 

[Ermintrude]

Look at it like this, you are a public service. Your taking them all for the team. Your my best friend ! U take all the 'winners' and we take the rest.

[edit - your not that good as I ended up married to my wife and not .......]

 

[Millsy 82]

I have done much bigger jobs than this I call this ONE OF THOSE JOBS !! Started sh!7 got worse then ended sh!7 I've started my epic letter

Don't make it epic make it simple

Dear so and so

Please find enclosed invoice for works carried out in your property, I understand that it is not carried out to your satisfaction or up to current regulations as I instructed you and informed you I would correct free of charge, I would like to complete the job so it is to current regulations as soon as access is allowed. Failure to either pay or either allow myself to correct the mistake will result in court action.
I would like from this point forward for all correspondence between us to be in writing as i feel that the trust between us has broken down.

This is off the top of my head so don't quote me but make sure every thing is in writing the courts won't like he said/ she said. Make sure you send everything by recorded mail and have copies.

Stick to it you might have 1 customer slating you but you will get your money in the end.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Absolutely agree with Millsy.

Keep detailed notes for your own use, but keep the letter to the customer very short, polite but firm.

 

[village idiot]

I have done much bigger jobs than this I call this ONE OF THOSE JOBS !! Started sh!7 got worse then ended sh!7 I've started my epic letter

PJ, it is sad that what happened happened. But sheet happens. We all wish that this matter will be resolved and hope you will at least get money for your materials that you used on the job, and a bit for your labour.

But before you go head in, I will just like you to please look at the bigger picture.
If you start writing to the customer now and making them aware you are going to take legal action etc, my gut feelings tells me that this may just spur them on and make them even more angry? Try and put yourself in their position (someone has already pointed this to you in an earlier post). You decided that their boiler needed changing, removed old boiler, fitted new one and radiators on one floor work but not on the other? You have a pin hole leak on a 28mm pipework? You fit the flue then tell them it is wrongly fitted and has to be altered? You switch off the new boiler (and leave them I presume over the weekend with no heating or hot water)? Anyone who has a bit of an idea will try to turn on the boiler to at least have a shower. Yes, you might have told them not to touch it, but people always do.

Just let's say they left the boiler on all weekend and products of combustion etc got in and someone got ill or worse. What do you think the outcome would have been?

We all agree the customer is trying to get away with not paying you and also wants to keep some of your pipework, flashings, etc which is rather strange. How come they think it is done right?
Personally, I will suggest you put a line under it. Consider it a very bad experience and move on. The more you dwell on this, the more you get distracted from other work you should be doing and the more you get bugged down with it.

So you will prefer to go and remove your boiler, but they may also be of the opinion that if they let you access to the property, you may decide to damage the pipework etc that you had fitted. Especially considering they have informed you they intend to keep it and not pay for it?

By all means, send them your letter(s), but be polite and apologetic. Tell them you admit things did not go to plan but things of this nature do happen once in a while (remember all those millions spent on an NHS computer system that eventually got scrapped???). Tell them you are more than happy to attend and complete the job at no extra cost to them. Inform them that you will gladly reduce your labour charge due to the inconvenience they have ''suffered''. Finish by letting them know that if they have decided not to let you complete the installation, then you will be happy to come and remove your materials etc. Present yourself in a genuine and caring manner.

I am not so sure that takin this matter to court or threatening them with legal action will achieve anything. JUST MY VIEW.

Take the loss on the chin, liken it to a bad investment in the stock market or similar, and forget about it.
WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST IN WHAT EVER ACTION YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

So shal I wait until the inspection has been done ?? They are taking out my boiler after it !! What shall I do ?

 

[Leo21]

So shal I wait until the inspection has been done ?? They are taking out my boiler after it !! What shall I do ?

Personally I'd get it in ASAP, apologising and offering to rectify at no extra cost. If you don't do it before the boilers removed I don't think you'll have a leg yuk stand on.

 

[Dotty]

So shal I wait until the inspection has been done ?? They are taking out my boiler after it !! What shall I do ?

My view is you should invoice them for everything, including the boiler.

Commissioned or not it has been installed and, as such, is now a second hand appliance which you cannot install anywhere else.

If they refuse then insist on removing it tell them you'll be doing it yourself. The slightest scratch they put on your property constitutes criminal damage.

Carpé Jugulum............

 

[village idiot]

I am afraid because Gas Safe has been notified, you have to wait for them to visit an write out their report.
Be the bigger man in all this. Clear your head and concentrate on other jobs (and your family, tell your wife you realise she was right in her analysis and inform her you will make sure it never happens again).
After the gas safe inspection and report, their letter to you will advice the rectifictions you need to make - I have attended quite a few properties where the owners have had disputes with engineer and Gas Safe has attended and ask engineer to rectify by a certain date - in all the cases I know, the owner has opted not to have the engineer back.
Now, once you receive the report from Gas Safe, everything will now go official full scale. Write to customer indicating that you have received report and want to come and make good the ''defects''. Chances are by the time you send them their letter, their relative who is gas safe would already have taken out your boiler and fitted the replacement. So they may already be asking you to come and collect your boiler. But the important thing is that you would have fulfilled your obligation as you have written to them requesting to attend and rectify findings by Gas Safe Inspector. If they choose not to have you back then, YOUR JOB IS DONE AND YOUR BACK SIDE COMPLETELY COVERED. Go there, pick up your now second hand boiler and think of how you can make use of it somehow.

Yes, you have been SCAMMED, but remember this, people get scammed every day, OAP's even intelligent and smart alecs. I know a professor who was scammed out of millions in fake investments. So as I said in a previous post, call it a bad investment, hold your head high and move on. It will hurt for a few weeks or more, but before long, you will look back and laugh at the experience.
GOOD LUCK.

 

[Millsy 82]

I am afraid because Gas Safe has been notified, you have to wait for them to visit an write out their report.
Be the bigger man in all this. Clear your head and concentrate on other jobs (and your family, tell your wife you realise she was right in her analysis and inform her you will make sure it never happens again).
After the gas safe inspection and report, their letter to you will advice the rectifictions you need to make - I have attended quite a few properties where the owners have had disputes with engineer and Gas Safe has attended and ask engineer to rectify by a certain date - in all the cases I know, the owner has opted not to have the engineer back.
Now, once you receive the report from Gas Safe, everything will now go official full scale. Write to customer indicating that you have received report and want to come and make good the ''defects''. Chances are by the time you send them their letter, their relative who is gas safe would already have taken out your boiler and fitted the replacement. So they may already be asking you to come and collect your boiler. But the important thing is that you would have fulfilled your obligation as you have written to them requesting to attend and rectify findings by Gas Safe Inspector. If they choose not to have you back then, YOUR JOB IS DONE AND YOUR BACK SIDE COMPLETELY COVERED. Go there, pick up your now second hand boiler and think of how you can make use of it somehow.

Yes, you have been SCAMMED, but remember this, people get scammed every day, OAP's even intelligent and smart alecs. I know a professor who was scammed out of millions in fake investments. So as I said in a previous post, call it a bad investment, hold your head high and move on. It will hurt for a few weeks or more, but before long, you will look back and laugh at the experience.
GOOD LUCK.

I could not disagree more. Get everything ready before gas safe go. Once they have been you don't want to be fighting it on two fronts. As soon as gas safe see that you have admitted the mistake and offered to rectify free of charge in writing they will leave you be as it's down to the customer then as she is refusing gas safe won't take it any further.

After gas safe have been then they will wasn't to know how you are going to rectify it and once the boiler has been removed then you can't.

He has been scammed yes. It can happen to anyone but the difference is you can do something about this and it is not too hard to sort. But letting them run Scott free is just stupid! If it was for a small amount of money then it's not worth it but a boiler and a 28mm gas run is a lot of money and then there is the labour!

 

[SimonG]

Agree with Millsy, hardball, short and facts only. Mistakes happen, people get upset and the best way to deal with things is openly and honestly. Which sounds like Pete has done. Now is the time for getting your money and staying on the right side of gas safe.

 

[Leo21]

Gas safe can't say anything, you were kicked of the job before completion. You left it safe. Different story if you'd left running and commissioned, personally I think they'll have nothing to say. I'd be on hand for the inspection, regardless if the customer will let you I'm or not.,you can also plead your case while your there.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

So shall I send a letter and the bill because this inspection is going to be a farce because they are removing my boiler strait after it !!

 

[Leo21]

So shall I send a letter and the bill because this inspection is going to be a farce because they are removing my boiler strait after it !!

Your choice, but I would. If you do end up in court to get your money I think you'll need to make it clear that you tried everything you could to finish/ rectify the job. You weren't allowed to finish it, the gas safe inspection may even be a good for your case. When they rule you've done nothing wrong apart from not finish the job, but weren't allowed to.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

I just drafted a letter explaining that is been over a week since we left the works at your request and we require full payment. Or all the materials inc pipe fittings clips boiler ect and said it needs sorting by the 30 th of May payment or materials. And ether me or my mate needs to remove as we don't want you to be billed for damage to unpaid for materials I'm getting retyped in the office in the morning and sent recorded in the morning

 

[Dotty]

I just drafted a letter explaining that is been over a week since we left the works at your request and we require full payment. Or all the materials inc pipe fittings clips boiler ect and said it needs sorting by the 30 th of May payment or materials. And ether me or my mate needs to remove as we don't want you to be billed for damage to unpaid for materials I'm getting retyped in the office in the morning and sent recorded in the morning

Carpé jugulum.

 

[Millsy 82]

I just drafted a letter explaining that is been over a week since we left the works at your request and we require full payment. Or all the materials inc pipe fittings clips boiler ect and said it needs sorting by the 30 th of May payment or materials. And ether me or my mate needs to remove as we don't want you to be billed for damage to unpaid for materials I'm getting retyped in the office in the morning and sent recorded in the morning

I wouldn't mention the materials. Payment and access to complete the job only. What can you do with a 2nd hand boiler?

 

[julesverne]

Def should be looking for full payment. Don't be going for materials your entitled to full payment she's the one who kicked you out.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

Update. Had inspection today I wasn't present Ok he said it was a good install and I spared no expense good boiler controls and trvs ect. He NCS my flue saying it was to close to the fabric of the building It was with in regs to the window !! It was running when he got there And they had my report before he inspected So I had to call these people and explain I had to rectify the defect NCS and she said the boilers coming out Only the boiler. And we are not paying you anything So I said all my materials will be removed or full payment she said that's not going to happen Then I said well all my materials or I bill for the ones not returned she said then you will have to pay for all the damage caused !! Wall plug holes lead slate hole ect I said are you real !!! And she started getting nasty and I said you signed the paperwork and you agreed the price ect she said the paperwork was not valid because it didn't have a clause in it. I don't no what this means. But waiting till morning now see what happens

 

[LPC]

Honestly, i'd just walk away. You win some you lose some. It's just not worth the hassle or damage to your health.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Stay strong , if inspector is only giving NCS then you can take her to court !!? If I was you I would fight till the end and also get compensation if Posible

 

[village idiot]

99% of the time that Gas Safe has attended a property under dispute by home owner, the findings mainly fall into the category of NCS (thank the good Lord for that, or else there will be some very bad Gas Safe installers out there). Now the inspection is over, you have to write to them saying you are prepared to rectify the ''defects''.

So now she says your contract did not have a clause? What a JOKER. You have been scammed, FACT. Take it on the chin and move on.

 

[SimonG]

Simple letter required now. Seven days to pay full bill, forget about the boiler, its in and was part of the contract. Tell them in the letter that after 7 days you will pass it to a solicitor to pursue, the costs of which will be added to the bill. Then do it, pass it to a solicitor and forget it.

 

[village idiot]

Stay strong , if inspector is only giving NCS then you can take her to court !!? If I was you I would fight till the end and also get compensation if Posible

Stan, he will not go far with that. As long as the inspection has identified a single ''defect'', she will do all she can to use that to her advantage.
''Judge, this chap is Gas safe Install, and he got this flue thingy wrong, etc etc,'' how can I trust him in my house?

Forget it and move on. You have better fish to fry, go fry them. If you go to court, that is days/weeks off work. who will pay you for that? The customer???

 

[SimonG]

Raises a good question though. In an instance when gassafe do classify something as ntsc and you need to rectify it, but the cust wont allow access, where do you stand?

 

[Millsy 82]

send a letter to them stating full payment by such and such a day give them 20-30 days to pay. You will be round to fix NCS. DO NOT SAY YOU WILL HAVE BOILER BACK. Get her into court.

She is trying to scare you dont let her.

Only deal in writing from now on. Dont speak to her on the phone as you have no proof of what is said.

Good luck

 

[Leo21]

Don't give up, chase your money. Don't let scum like that of easy.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

If the customer refuses you to rectify the defect then they close the case

 

[SimonG]

Stan, he will not go far with that. As long as the inspection has identified a single ''defect'', she will do all she can to use that to her advantage.
''Judge, this chap is Gas safe Install, and he got this flue thingy wrong, etc etc,'' how can I trust him in my house?

Forget it and move on. You have better fish to fry, go fry them. If you go to court, that is days/weeks off work. who will pay you for that? The customer???

Plenty of scope Pete knew he had made a mistake and left the appliance safe, the cust knew about the issue but has had somebody else get it up and running, if I have understood it correctly, so where does the guy who set it running stand?

 

[village idiot]

Raises a good question though. In an instance when gassafe do classify something as ntsc and you need to rectify it, but the cust wont allow access, where do you stand?

Simon, as I have mentioned before, the properties I have attended before that have disputes with Gas Safe all had classifications as NCS. But even though Gas Safe gave the installer (s) a time frame to rectify, the customers all decided they would rather not have them back into their house.
Trust is an important factor in our profession. Once that is lost, there is only one option. Pack your tools and leave or risk not getting paid.