ACS Category 3 route?

[MattWeth]

Hi All,

I said hello in a previous thread: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/new-member-introductions/28287-hello-question.html but I need a bit of training advice and this looks like the right bit of the forum

I'll repeat a bit of the other thread regarding my background in here:
For 20 years I've worked in industry as an HVAC / Building Services design engineer with a few years as a commissioning supervisor for refrigeration and building services in the nuclear industry. Given my background, I've always done my own and families / friends plumbing (apart from gas obviously) and consider myself to be a pretty competent DIY plumber. I've got two good mates who are heating engineers (oil and gas) and over the years have helped them out on big jobs and sat on their shoulders asking daft questions.

Next April(ish), I'm getting made redundant and I've decided to set up as a plumber and I want to work towards getting ACS / GSR. I've already booked onto Water Regs and Unvented HW courses with a local college.

With regards to the gas side, I really just want to make sure I've understood the entry routes correctly...

Although I've got a fair bit of building services experience, it's all design office and not hands on and I've got no formal plumbing qualifications so I guess this will make me a Category 3 ACS applicant? I have to say I've got no desire to do an expensive fast track course to gain an NVQ which will probably get me no nearer to ACS CCN1 - I'd rather build the plumbing / gas portfolio experience.

The same local college that I'm doing my water regs and unvented at also does a 'Gas Portfolio Building' course. Quite what you get for the 2 days and £100, I'm not sure but it's their prerequisite for their CCN1 assessment and at least they have a proper Category 3 route (most of the fast track places seem to require you to take a several thousand pound course in addition to building your portfolio, even for Cat 3...).

I'm lucky in that I've got a couple of GSR heating engineer mates who will take me out and help me with my portfolio although I'm uncertain as to exactly how much 'experience' I have to document (I guess the 'Portfolio Course' will tell me that).

So, am I about right with my interpretation of the Category 3 route to ACS CCN1?

thanks

Matt

 

[Hardy1]

ask kirkgas-hell help you.

 

[northstar]

what college are you at ?

 

[MattWeth]

Not there yet (I haven't talked through the ACS gas route with them yet).

 

[fuzzy]

Hi All,

I said hello in a previous thread: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/new-member-introductions/28287-hello-question.html but I need a bit of training advice and this looks like the right bit of the forum

I'll repeat a bit of the other thread regarding my background in here:
For 20 years I've worked in industry as an HVAC / Building Services design engineer with a few years as a commissioning supervisor for refrigeration and building services in the nuclear industry. Given my background, I've always done my own and families / friends plumbing (apart from gas obviously) and consider myself to be a pretty competent DIY plumber. I've got two good mates who are heating engineers (oil and gas) and over the years have helped them out on big jobs and sat on their shoulders asking daft questions.

Next April(ish), I'm getting made redundant and I've decided to set up as a plumber and I want to work towards getting ACS / GSR. I've already booked onto Water Regs and Unvented HW courses with a local college.

With regards to the gas side, I really just want to make sure I've understood the entry routes correctly...

Although I've got a fair bit of building services experience, it's all design office and not hands on and I've got no formal plumbing qualifications so I guess this will make me a Category 3 ACS applicant? I have to say I've got no desire to do an expensive fast track course to gain an NVQ which will probably get me no nearer to ACS CCN1 - I'd rather build the plumbing / gas portfolio experience.

The same local college that I'm doing my water regs and unvented at also does a 'Gas Portfolio Building' course. Quite what you get for the 2 days and £100, I'm not sure but it's their prerequisite for their CCN1 assessment and at least they have a proper Category 3 route (most of the fast track places seem to require you to take a several thousand pound course in addition to building your portfolio, even for Cat 3...).

I'm lucky in that I've got a couple of GSR heating engineer mates who will take me out and help me with my portfolio although I'm uncertain as to exactly how much 'experience' I have to document (I guess the 'Portfolio Course' will tell me that).

So, am I about right with my interpretation of the Category 3 route to ACS CCN1?

thanks

Matt

approx 240days as a cat 3

 

[MattWeth]

approx 240days as a cat 3

Thanks fuzzy.

 

[kirkgas]

i work with bpec system so only know their system, but i think with those qualifications you would be a CATEGORY 2, which would be 8-10 week theory course with portfolio building as required, the 2 day course for £100 sounds interesting if they are simply goig to show you how to fill out a portfolio, because we would teach you that on either the CAT 2 or 3 course and will be included in the price you pay for that

 

[REDSAW]

eh?.
no chance, its cat 3 as you have to prove you have been working with a registered gas engineer for (but dont quote me) 6 months min or at least. as fuz says to be eligible for cat 2. cat 3 with no experience previous employed position or relevant qualifications. more like 2 years on the job for cat 2 entrance.

 

[MattWeth]

Thanks fellas.

 

[kirkgas]

eh?.
no chance, its cat 3 as you have to prove you have been working with a registered gas engineer for (but dont quote me) 6 months min or at least. as fuz says to be eligible for cat 2. cat 3 with no experience previous employed position or relevant qualifications. more like 2 years on the job for cat 2 entrance.

100% wrong in your statement of "prove you have been working with a gas engineer for 6 months"

a CAT 2 can walk in to any centre with NO GAS EXPERIENCE AT ALL, sign up and decide whether to do theory first, portfolio first or a mix and match, only when the portfolio is completed can they sit their ACS, but until they sit it they are perfectly entitled to sit in a class and do theory or work supervised

 

[REDSAW]

that is what i was told by proberbly my acs center as they were discussing what cat i was.

anyway forget that, whilst looking it up i came across this quite interesting joy
[DLMURL="http://techgastraining.com/new_gas_engineer.htm"]ACS Gas Training for new engineers[/DLMURL]

 

[MattWeth]

100% wrong in your statement of "prove you have been working with a gas engineer for 6 months"

a CAT 2 can walk in to any centre with NO GAS EXPERIENCE AT ALL, sign up and decide whether to do theory first, portfolio first or a mix and match, only when the portfolio is completed can they sit their ACS, but until they sit it they are perfectly entitled to sit in a class and do theory or work supervised

Thanks kirkgas. Am I right in thinking that as far as the ACS assessment goes, there's no actual requirement to do any 'gas' course at all for cat 2 or 3?
From what I've read, there are certain plumbing or trade related courses which satisfy the cat 2 requirements (meaning a reduced portfolio) or for cat 3, a more extensive portfolio but again no requirement for any formal training courses? But training centres make their money selling theory courses so they might not be prepared to let you sit the ACS without one but that's a different story...

I really don't want to be forced into taking an expensive, theoretical course of dubious benefit (to me or my understanding of the regs) just in order to be able to sit the ACS - I'd still have to do the hard bit - the portfolio. Over the years I've done theory courses till they are coming out of my ears and while I fully appreciate the need to work safely and according to the regulations when it comes to domestic gas, I spent 15 years designing HVAC and refrigeration installations for the nuclear industry - their regulations are eye-watering.

 

[kirkgas]

Thanks kirkgas. Am I right in thinking that as far as the ACS assessment goes, there's no actual requirement to do any 'gas' course at all for cat 2 or 3?
From what I've read, there are certain plumbing or trade related courses which satisfy the cat 2 requirements (meaning a reduced portfolio) or for cat 3, a more extensive portfolio but again no requirement for any formal training courses? But training centres make their money selling theory courses so they might not be prepared to let you sit the ACS without one but that's a different story...

I really don't want to be forced into taking an expensive, theoretical course of dubious benefit (to me or my understanding of the regs) just in order to be able to sit the ACS - I'd still have to do the hard bit - the portfolio. Over the years I've done theory courses till they are coming out of my ears and while I fully appreciate the need to work safely and according to the regulations when it comes to domestic gas, I spent 15 years designing HVAC and refrigeration installations for the nuclear industry - their regulations are eye-watering.

my take on it you wont pass ACS with only practical work via portfolio, and if that says something about the work being done out there then so be it, you cannot enter a trade like this without any theory training, the structure of ACS exams is such that it is testing your ability to research info you dont know etc, and again no disrespect to the loads of great guys doing a great job, a lot of them fall down on legislation, IUP etc etc and for me (obviously as a trainer!!!!!) the theory training is just s important as the practical, and i'm sure you dont mean any offence but to comment that the portfolio is the only important bit and you dont want to waste money on a theory course is a bit off the mark, ask qualified guys who come back for training every 5 yrs why they simply dont come in and fire through the exams.
but TBH i am not 100% sure whether you can complete a portfolio only and be ALLOWED to sit ACS as it has never came up, obviously training suppliers will try to sell you training but not sure if it mandatory (think it could be for CAT2) but check with bpec or any other certifiction body for an absolute answer, good luck if you choose to do it,

 

[MattWeth]

my take on it you wont pass ACS with only practical work via portfolio, and if that says something about the work being done out there then so be it, you cannot enter a trade like this without any theory training, the structure of ACS exams is such that it is testing your ability to research info you dont know etc, and again no disrespect to the loads of great guys doing a great job, a lot of them fall down on legislation, IUP etc etc and for me (obviously as a trainer!!!!!) the theory training is just s important as the practical, and i'm sure you dont mean any offence but to comment that the portfolio is the only important bit and you dont want to waste money on a theory course is a bit off the mark, ask qualified guys who come back for training every 5 yrs why they simply dont come in and fire through the exams.

Take your point entirely about the need for theoretical training too kirkgas and I mean no disrespect to qualified engineers or training providers - I'm under no illusions that the theory is easy. I guess I meant that if it's required, the theory learning can be achieved quicker (albeit at an expense) whereas there's no shortcuts for the portfolio - you have to get out there and do the work under supervision which takes time (probably lots of time). I've spent days trying to dig out information about what's actually required and what people want to sell me (not always the same) with regards to getting ACS. Seems a bit of a minefield...

but TBH i am not 100% sure whether you can complete a portfolio only and be ALLOWED to sit ACS as it has never came up, obviously training suppliers will try to sell you training but not sure if it mandatory (think it could be for CAT2) but check with bpec or any other certifiction body for an absolute answer, good luck if you choose to do it,

I've got an appointment with my local college (an approved ACS trainer) - hopefully, I'll get some answers then.

Thanks again for all the advice

Edit: If you don't mind me asking, under the BPEC system as a Cat 3 (I'm still assuming 'worst case' and that I wouldn't be allowed cat 2) what sort of course length / costs am I looking at? (PM me if you'd prefer).

cheers
Matt

 

[kirkgas]

Take your point entirely about the need for theoretical training too kirkgas and I mean no disrespect to qualified engineers or training providers - I'm under no illusions that the theory is easy. I guess I meant that if it's required, the theory learning can be achieved quicker (albeit at an expense) whereas there's no shortcuts for the portfolio - you have to get out there and do the work under supervision which takes time (probably lots of time). I've spent days trying to dig out information about what's actually required and what people want to sell me (not always the same) with regards to getting ACS. Seems a bit of a minefield...



I've got an appointment with my local college (an approved ACS trainer) - hopefully, I'll get some answers then.

Thanks again for all the advice

Edit: If you don't mind me asking, under the BPEC system as a Cat 3 (I'm still assuming 'worst case' and that I wouldn't be allowed cat 2) what sort of course length / costs am I looking at? (PM me if you'd prefer).

cheers
Matt

we do bpec gas Foundation Course 28weeks full time (split between theory and portfolio) portfolio placement guaranteed for about £4800 plus VAT

 

[MattWeth]

Thanks kirkgas.