Landlord check situation today

[deano1011]

So i entered a property last week that i check yearly for the landlord.. issue 1 was a 1.5 mb gas leak with no smell of gas (last year there was no leak)
now last year there was no cooker installed, this year an old cooker had been fitted and even though it was the tenants appliance whilst checking the pipework i noticed some idiot has fitted the back plate elbow and bayonet backwards!
When i say backwards i do mean bayonet facing the wall with back plate behind it with long screws to take up the gap.
so on the cp12 i noted that as the gas leak has appeared this year and the cooker was incorrectly fitted this year in my opinion the cooker installation needs to be addressed first as it may solve the cause of the gas leak.
Well i had an angry tenant on the phone today wanting to know why i haven't fixed there leak and why i was presuming it was the cooker they had installed and not anything else..
probably because you have no paperwork from the installer and it's a bodge job love!! grrr some people!

 

[mountainman]

You did right IMO.

 

[Puddle]

Well,the tenant can not scream at you,she should scream at the landlord who then screams at you if he wishes ,as he in contracting you

But you should not put your opinion on the report or say something may solve the cause of a gas leak,we are dealing with regulations and facts hear,not hear say,what happens if they get someone in to act on your hear say and it solves nothing,they can come back to you for costs

You report installation ncs,at,id ect ,give reason why and issue paperwork as required,that is it

Hard but do not leave yourself open.jobs hard enough as it is

imho

 

[diamondgas]

I agree with puddle deano The landlord has asked you to carry out a safety check. If the cooker belongs to the tenant then you note it on the safety check as tenants own and as you've observed the cooker installation issues then mark them down also. There is no need to record the pressure drop on the paperwork as it is within permissible, no smell reported. All that'll do is give grief IMO! You can not prove that the dodgy cooker install is the cause of the gas escape without further investigation in my opinion and why bother? 1.5mbar is small You could potentially loose a valued customer too?

 

[adam84]

If i was you i would round and AR the cooker and charge them for correcting the shoddy work and explain that gas leaks can blow up entire rows of houses if left undetected, just cover youself and explain the risks.

 

[deano1011]

Well,the tenant can not scream at you,she should scream at the landlord who then screams at you if he wishes ,as he in contracting you

But you should not put your opinion on the report or say something may solve the cause of a gas leak,we are dealing with regulations and facts hear,not hear say,what happens if they get someone in to act on your hear say and it solves nothing,they can come back to you for costs

You report installation ncs,at,id ect ,give reason why and issue paperwork as required,that is it

Hard but do not leaver yourself open.jobs ard enough as it is

imho

should have noted the opinion was not written on the cp12 just the facts.
the opinion was given to the landlord via email. it's a tricky situation as we do not have to check the tenants own cooker. but if a diy fitting of the cooker means altering a previously sound gas pipe who is then responsible to put it right?
at least if they get someone in to act on my "hear say" the cooker bayonet will be correctly installed as it should have been from the start.

 

[deano1011]

I agree with puddle deano The landlord has asked you to carry out a safety check. If the cooker belongs to the tenant then you note it on the safety check as tenants own and as you've observed the cooker installation issues then mark them down also. There is no need to record the pressure drop on the paperwork as it is within permissible, no smell reported. All that'll do is give grief IMO! You can not prove that the dodgy cooker install is the cause of the gas escape without further investigation in my opinion and why bother? 1.5mbar is small You could potentially loose a valued customer too?

point taken but i should also mention 3 years ago i replaced all the gas pipework in the house. i know and have worked for the landlord for many years which is why i mentioned the new leak to them as i know they are keen to keep the property in A1 condition.

 

[diamondgas]

should have noted the opinion was not written on the cp12 just the facts.
the opinion was given to the landlord via email. it's a tricky situation as we do not have to check the tenants own cooker. but if a diy fitting of the cooker means altering a previously sound gas pipe who is then responsible to put it right?
at least if they get someone in to act on my "hear say" the cooker bayonet will be correctly installed as it should have been from the start.

You make the responsible person, i'e' the tenant aware of your observations and let them act on your professional opinion IMO ... has nothing to do with the landlord but it's a good thing to let them know of your findings separately as a courtesy! Get's you brownie points

 

[diamondgas]

point taken but i should also mention 3 years ago i replaced all the gas pipework in the house. i know and have worked for the landlord for many years which is why i mentioned the new leak to them as i know they are keen to keep the property in A1 condition.

Sounds like you have a good relationship with the Landlord Deano ...

 

[deano1011]

Sounds like you have a good relationship with the Landlord Deano ...

I try to mate, they own a few properties :wink_smile:

 

[Millsy 82]

This might be a stupid question.

When doing a landlords gas safety why not check the cooker as it is the tenants?

I always check every appliance tenants or landlords as I am signing to say that the whole gas installation is safe. Also if I thought there was a leak on an appliance I would prove it then shut it off.

 

[diamondgas]

This might be a stupid question.

When doing a landlords gas safety why not check the cooker as it is the tenants?

I always check every appliance tenants or landlords as I am signing to say that the whole gas installation is safe. Also if I thought there was a leak on an appliance I would prove it then shut it off.

Why? In my opinion you're getting to involved! What if the customer had fitted 5 gas fires of their own or even one, would you remove every one and check their flues free of charge?

 

[julesverne]

if you suspect that this is diy work shouldnt you riddor it?

 

[deano1011]

This might be a stupid question.

When doing a landlords gas safety why not check the cooker as it is the tenants?

I always check every appliance tenants or landlords as I am signing to say that the whole gas installation is safe. Also if I thought there was a leak on an appliance I would prove it then shut it off.

The writing for the regulation is this

Your tenants are responsible for any gas appliances they own, but you must still maintain the parts of any associated gas installations - like flues and ventilation grilles - and the pipe work.

i agree with diamondgas it's best not to get to involved with tenant owned old appliances.
i only had to note this one as the fault was with the bayonet which is connected to the pipework that the landlord owns.

 

[deano1011]

@julesvern
to a degree yes, but the materials etc are correct, it's certainly not ID. and i have no proof it was a diy job, but i have never seen a competent person fit a back plate elbow and bayonet backwards..lol

 

[Millsy 82]

Why? In my opinion you're getting to involved! What if the customer had fitted 5 gas fires of their own or even one, would you remove every one and check their flues free of charge?

Luckily never come across a tenant who has fitted 5 gas fires of there own but yeah I take them out and check the flues and everything. Will think twice about it now though always thought you had to as I have to sign off the whole system

 

[diamondgas]

Luckily never come across a tenant who has fitted 5 gas fires of there own but yeah I take them out and check the flues and everything. Will think twice about it now though always thought you had to as I have to sign off the whole system

If the appliance belongs to the tenant then it's their responsibility to have it maintained! You make a note of having observed it being installed but that's as far as you have to go. I'd even question having to check the flue integrity. If that were the case we'd be opening up sealed flues just in case someone decided to install an appliance on it or even checking flues with a vase of flowers in front just in case... lol

 

[REDSAW]

i would of, disconnected the cooker and re tested the pipe work.
if there was then no drop, i would have informed the tenant that their appliance was faulty left disconnected then noted on the form 0 drop for 2 mins = cooker disconnected and bayonet=fitted ncs.
if anything happened after then some one re connected after.

if there was still a drop, re connect cooker as was, then note 1.5mb drop after 2mins-no smell of gas. and bayonet=ncs
then inform land lord as thats another matter.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Gas Safe tech bulletin 055 deals with the duties of landlords. They are responsible for the gas pipe work within a property and any flues as well as any appliances. This means that if a tenant has their own open clued appliance you need to check the flue and catchment space.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Syty]

Gas Safe tech bulletin 055 deals with the duties of landlords. They are responsible for the gas pipe work within a property and any flues as well as any appliances. This means that if a tenant has their own open clued appliance you need to check the flue and catchment space.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

You right, but I am sure that flues to be checked are the ones for appliances owned by Landlord. If chimney should not be in use at all, but tenant had connect appliance to it he is responsible for flue and gas connection.
This is what I have been taught.
I think that small leak would be trough gas control knobs as it is old cooker.

 

[diamondgas]

You right, but I am sure that flues to be checked are the ones for appliances owned by Landlord. If chimney should not be in use at all, but tenant had connect appliance to it he is responsible for flue and gas connection.
This is what I have been taught.
I think that small leak would be trough gas control knobs as it is old cooker.

TB055 - "A2 ...Flues serving tenant's own appliances are not covered under GSIUR" It does then go on about HSE and duty of care regards a chimney should be maintained in a condition 'fit for purpose'. It would be up to a court to decide should something occur.

Like me some of you may have large old victorian properties that may have 10-12 Chimneys with various plant arrangements sitting in front of them. They may be behind closed doors, cupboards or even be bricked over. This sounds to me like the governing bodies covering their backsides and placing the onus back towards us and/or the Landlord! However I stand corrected, all those five fires I mentioned belonging to the tenant should be checked with the landlords permission or noted otherwise should permission not be granted End of the day I'd put the onus back onto the person responsible for the appliances and/or property!

Just last month I found a gas fire in a tenanted property that I'd been carrying out the safety check on for the past 3 years. Previously didn't know it existed. A change of tenancy meant that whatever the previous tenant had covered the fireplace with no longer existed and the fire was there for all to see! Neither the letting agent nor the landlord said anything regards this fire being installed. I capped it off as it was a well knackered DGF without ventilation!!!

 

[diamondgas]

Okay so just to confuse you here's what HSE website stated regards flues ---
[h=2]"What’s not covered?[/h]Appliances owned by the tenant; flues or chimneys solely connected to an appliance owned by the tenant." see Maintenance ? gas appliances and flues .....

So I'm not gonna check those 5 fires after all and take back what I said about being correctred :lol: How confusing is that! Gas Safe TB says according to HSE they should, HSE says they are not covered!!!

I'm going to work!!!

 

[CMairiD]

Don't get too happy, diamond. Look what the HSE also has to say under 'What gas appliances do I have responsibility for' ...

It is also recommended to include all flues (e.g. chimneys) connected to gas appliances within your landlord's gas safety check, even where they do not serve appliances provided by the landlord. This may also help to fulfil other legal duties under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974.

Gas safety - landlords and letting agents

Makes perfect sense to me. The landlord has a duty to maintain the fabric of the building. If he/she then allows a tenant to connect to that fabric, the flue is his to ensure that it's safe.

GSIUR doesn't impose this duty, HSAW Act does.

 

[diamondgas]

Thankfully it says recommended and not a must or shall CMairiD As a landlord I'd have it in the signed contract that no gas fires are to be installed without their permission! As a Landlord you could have bricked up your flues but that doesn't stop your tenant opening them back up!

As far as the Safety Certificate goes though I believe that as long as you are made aware that the appliance exists then you mark it down as tenants own, visual inspection only! It's a can'o'worms though !!!

 

[Millsy 82]

Oh I love all these grey areas. Gas safe say 1 thing HSE say something else. If you were to get prosecuted though isnt it HSE that do it so wouldnt it be better to follow there guidelines or is just landlords and agencies that HSE prosecute.

I'm now completely confused luckily most of the agencies that we do work for dont allow tenants to put appliances in apart from cookers and they dont take long to check over