Modern Boilers - Not Fit For Purpose??

[cr0ft]

Hi all,

Wanted to see what you all thought. Went to look at a 3 year old combi boiler (Worcester 28i Greenstar) today. Flue has been installed 100% correctly but still there's condensate leaking out from the horizontal part of the elbow on top of the boiler. Cleary a seal on the internal part of the flue there that's leaking and has caused extensive corrosion damage to the condensate tray in the boiler.

I went to another customer last week with a 25 year old floor standing boiler that still runs as well as it did the day it was installed. It might cost them an extra £10 a month in running costs but I bet it will still be running in 10 years time.

How on earth is this progress? Are boiler companies just becoming greedy? To me it's complete madness!

 

[SimonG]

It's not just a boiler thing. Washing machines, tv's etc. Nothing manufactured to last.

On the oil side I always tell my customers to keep the old one going until it bursts. Little bit more on the oil a lot less on the aggravation.

 

[Chalked]

I went to a 10 month old. Vaillant. The flue was again fitted correctly and was leaking on the flue bend horizontal seal. The "o" ring had compressed, this caused no permenant damage, as it hadn't been going that long. A new seal did the trick.

The seals are too slack! And should be engineered better.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I couldn't agree more they are not fit for purpose , the modern condensing combi is quite literally pants. Trying to explain to customers that these things won't last like the old one is pointless .

 

[cr0ft]

To be honest, will only ever fit system boilers in my house. In my limited experience they are far more reliable. I've come to the conclusion that the modern combi boiler is a pants idea. Great in theory, rubbish in practise.

 

[hammers4spanner]

They are fine in small properties imho
In our game tho you have what i call combi monkeys who throw them in all day long all year and earn about 60 k from it

 

[cr0ft]

I've actually started a wee photo library of broken combi boilers so i can show customers when they are adamant about wanting a combi. I've tagged them with the age and make of the boiler when the repair was required.

All bar two of them are combi boilers and I'd say we service an even mix of combi and system boilers.

 

[Last Plumber]

All same, as above, I have a customer this week who is on his third Grundfos in 18 months because they don't like spikes ( supply fault). The old normal motor on a Grundfos worked well and would suit this job but we can't buy them anymore because they're not efficient!
Really.?

 

[hammers4spanner]

All same, as above, I have a customer this week who is on his third Grundfos in 18 months because they don't like spikes ( supply fault). The old normal motor on a Grundfos worked well and would suit this job but we can't buy them anymore because they're not efficient!
Really.?

Mind boggles don't it

 

[kris]

Yeh agree , like simon said its everything , although technology is making everything hitech and fancy the downside is nothing is built to last ,,,,,,, cast iron boilers 40 -50 years life span lol against a WB combi be lucky to get 10, motors are the same , crazy the amount of breakdowns ive seen with new motors as with all the electrics n technology its just more that can go and will go wrong, when they tested engine blocks years ago (in house) having them go full blast for a very long time to test the block well they simply cant test electric circuit longevity ,,,, cant control electrons lol

 

[Stanios]

Don't work on old boilers much but have seen Vaillant Turbomax combis that keep going after 15 -20 years. What you have to realise 1. the old boilers have big water pathways and few internal sensors that can get clogged up with sludge.
2. when them old boilers were put in generally the whole system was put in at same time. Fresh copper, fresh rads.
Modern boilers have extremely small pathways in dhw exchanger, sensors, turbines and switches that get destroyed by sludge AND they are hung straight onto 40 year old systems full of that sludge. I hardly ever see a filled benchmark if we are to go by that hardly any installs are flushed properly. Result is a boiler replacement every 5 years..

 

[Dan]

I've actually started a wee photo library of broken combi boilers so i can show customers when they are adamant about wanting a combi. I've tagged them with the age and make of the boiler when the repair was required.

All bar two of them are combi boilers and I'd say we service an even mix of combi and system boilers.

That might be a good thread in the public forums somewhere that we all add to?!

 

[cr0ft]

I think there may be an opportunity for us to educate the public here Dan and also help ensure that professional plumbers who do the job properly aren't being undercut by ones that are cutting corners.

We've all been there where you quote to do the job properly and you are undercut by £400-500 because the next person puts it on the wall without cleaning the system.

A sticky thread showing what happens to the boilers down the line when they are thrown on dirty systems might be good?

Happy to write it if needed.

 

[Last Plumber]

I think there may be an opportunity for us to educate the public here Dan and also help ensure that professional plumbers who do the job properly aren't being undercut by ones that are cutting corners.

We've all been there where you quote to do the job properly and you are undercut by £400-500 because the next person puts it on the wall without cleaning the system.

A sticky thread showing what happens to the boilers down the line when they are thrown on dirty systems might be good?

Happy to write it if needed.

Good idea, it could last years a thread like that

 

[SimonG]

But people only see pound notes and today. That's what turns the world around these days.

It's all about bottom line.