Gas related question - is that still ok ?

[Old Account]

Hi guys,

As everybody knows I am currently doing my acs course and I had my 4th lesson done. We are currently calculating pipesizing.

However, currently I have got a job were we install a new central heating system and a complete new gas pipe from scratch.

I was yesterday calculating if we installed the right pipe size. I came to the conclusion that when you've got more than 1mbar drop you will need to upgrade the pipe to the next bigger pipe size.

I calculated over a 1mbar drop with the installation we have got. So basically my tutor meant we should upgrade to the very next size which would be 28mm.

Could anyone give me an idea if I am correct or not?

13,5m of 22mm pipe
5 pulled bends, 3 x 22mm elbows

My mate said, it is fine we don't need to upgrade the pipework... I believe him as he's experienced and I am sure it will work but usually you should upgrade according to my logic gas book.

Kind regrads
Ron

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Where did you get the 10.65 from?

thats what you divide the kw by to get the m3/h some use something else but i cant remember something like 0.0095

 

[stani]

am just cautious as I am clearly running a business which means i cannot allow myself to have complaints from my customers.

You need to forget all about working pipes sizes out and be worried about the 2 unsafe situations you have left. I would be ringing another GSR right now to go and test the 2 boilers that your company have left untested.
Then I would find another GSR who does know what he's what he's doing before you take any more gas related work on.

 

[Old Account]

thats what you divide the kw by to get the m3/h some use something else but i cant remember something like 0.0095

Yes that's what I used for my calculations 0.0995

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes that's what I used for my calculations 0.0995

0.00995 thats the cookie

 

[Old Account]

am just cautious as I am clearly running a business which means i cannot allow myself to have complaints from my customers.

You need to forget all about working pipes sizes out and be worried about the 2 unsafe situations you have left. I would be ringing another GSR right now to go and test the 2 boilers that your company have left untested.
Then I would find another GSR who does know what he's what he's doing before you take any more gas related work on.

I definitely will sort that out now! Thanks for the advice.

 

[Old Account]

0.00995 thats the cookie

1 kw input requires 0.095 cubic meter / hr of gas

 

[ShaunCorbs]

1 kw input requires 0.095 cubic meter / hr of gas

think you missed an 09 off?

 

[Old Account]

think you missed an 09 off?

That's what's written in my logic book

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That's what's written in my logic book

work it out then i come up with 351 m3/h on a 35 kw boiler for 0.095

for 0.00995 i get 3.51 m3/h which is about right

 

[Old Account]

work it out then i come up with 351 m3/h on a 35 kw boiler for 0.095

for 0.00995 i get 3.51 m3/h which is about right

I don't want to discuss you may be right but that's what I have got in my logic book

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I don't want to discuss you may be right but that's what I have got in my logic book

View attachment 29973

nope my feck up i was dividing as 10.65 you divide guess 0.095 you x sorry

 

[Old Account]

nope my feck up i was dividing as 10.65 you divide guess 0.095 you x sorry

So you could use both figures to calculate ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So you could use both figures to calculate ?

yes both do the same

35 / 10.65 = 3.28

35 x 0.095 = 3.32

both the same within tolerance

 

[cr0ft]

What's the arrangement on these jobs Matchless?? Are you just giving him the work and the customer pays him directly or are you subcontracting him in for the gas work (nothing illegal about that). If it's the latter, in law you are responsible as well if he leaves any defects so be very careful.

I went to another gas fitter about half way through my portfolio after it became clear the one training me was, shall we say, not very knowledgeable.

I haven't bothered to do the pipe sizing calculations but what I will say is the tables are quite conservative already. As long as the figures come within the allowable values in the table it should be fine. Clearly there are other issues with this guy too, I'd be tightness testing pipework on completion of any boiler installation.

 

[Old Account]

Thanks to you all

@ShaunCorbs @mfgs @stani @scott_d

Thumbs up for your help.

 

[Old Account]

What's the arrangement on these jobs Matchless?? Are you just giving him the work and the customer pays him directly or are you subcontracting him in for the gas work (nothing illegal about that). If it's the latter, in law you are responsible as well if he leaves any defects so be very careful.

I went to another gas fitter about half way through my portfolio after it became clear the one training me was, shall we say, not very knowledgeable.

I haven't bothered to do the pipe sizing calculations but what I will say is the tables are quite conservative already. As long as the figures come within the allowable values in the table it should be fine. Clearly there are other issues with this guy too, I'd be tightness testing pipework on completion of any boiler installation.

Hi cr0ft,

Basically the job is from me and we are doing together the full central heating and 1st and second fix bathroom. He is definitely responsible for the gas works as he holds the license. However, I do understand what you mean and therefore I am quite careful in regards the jobs now. I definitely have to watch him more than I thought and will need to get another engineer for the next jobs. It is pretty hard to find the right person to work with. Somehow everyone takes a Sod or just tries to screw me over with money. I am just willing to find someone who is honest and reliable and trustworthy. I should be learning from someone who is gas safe and not me telling him things like the fire places that the stones have to be checked if they have the right order otherwise it could produce carbon monoxide.

Somehow he doesn't take me really serious as person just because he is very knowledgeable.

Now, I think I have to change things again and need to look for someone else's. Thanks for your advise too is much appreciated!

 

[cr0ft]

Yes. Remember that the GSR members on here (and of course the plumbers too) who are willing to give their time to help folk are generally the better ones. You're obviously learning now that just because someone is qualified doesn't mean they do the job properly. Unfortunately some people chase the money rather than chasing quality and the money following. The ones who chase money always fall flat on their faces.

The silly thing here is if the gas pipe needs upgrading he could make some more money from doing it!

You have a good attitude and personally I think you will go far in this trade. Where are you doing your Gas training again? Does the trainer there still run his own business? Mine did and I ended up going out with him for free to get qualified. Wouldn't take that long and might be a better way.

 

[Old Account]

I honestly appreciate

Yes. Remember that the GSR members on here (and of course the plumbers too) who are willing to give their time to help folk are generally the better ones. You're obviously learning now that just because someone is qualified doesn't mean they do the job properly. Unfortunately some people chase the money rather than chasing quality and the money following. The ones who chase money always fall flat on their faces.

The silly thing here is if the gas pipe needs upgrading he could make some more money from doing it!

You have a good attitude and personally I think you will go far in this trade. Where are you doing your Gas training again? Does the trainer there still run his own business? Mine did and I ended up going out with him for free to get qualified. Wouldn't take that long and might be a better way.

I honestly appreciate the help of everyone on this forum. Even though some people have different solutions and opinions. But I think that's important it would be boring if everyone of us does the same.
I already invested too much money for the first course which I lost and therefore take it very serious. I do not have time to waste for the courses so I want to pass with the first attempt. My academy called " alpha building services" they are always fully booked and doing ok. The tutor I've got stopped working now but I have got a chance of calling some of their engineers to finish my portfolio which is very good.

I hope you are right, in terms of I'm going far in this trade ... I am pretty sure I'll one day that's the final aim though

But as you said it's a lot to learn and I am aware of that. I learn everyday but always the hard way.