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Discuss Would a second gas boiler be a good idea? in the Water Underfloor Heating Installations area at PlumbersForums.net

dewsbury

Messages
23
Hi folks,
I have newish gas boiler in 5-bed period red-brick house.
The ENTIRE house has underfloor heating which works pretty well.

However, my gas boiler provides heat for underfloor heating and also heat for hot water. Obviously these are at totally different temperatures.
ALso, there are "timer" considerations as I want the heating all "low" all winter. Timer for water is only one hour twice a day.

Plumber seems to be struggling with getting the boiler to heat the water AND UFH at two different temps and two different timings. He's a good guy generally. The timer does have facility for both heating and water.

I am wondering should I just get a second boiler and simply the whole matter.
Is this sensible? My gas bill in late winter was huge and I want better control of the system.
 

ShaunCorbs

Staff member
S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
30,568
Solutions
2
Have a look at viessmann 4 pipe system
 

gmartine

Esteemed
Gas Engineer
Messages
1,813
You need a boiler that has hot water priority, what is it?

 

Last Plumber

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
4,444
There are a few ways of controlling the hot water and heating independently and at different temperatures.

Most boiler manufacturers will have controls available to do that but there are other ways of doing it using generic controls.

Even the generic route can be very basic or quite technical.

No offense meant at all to your heating engineer but you might be better with someone more experienced in that area unless you are willing to go through the learning curve with him (and pay for it). You never know, he may be willing to work cheaper to gain more experience. Discuss it with him.

Start by looking at the boiler manufacturers controls.

What boiler do you have and what cylinder? What underfloor heating manifold/manifolds?
Can you post photo's of your installation? or list the main components?
Is this a new installation or is just the boiler new?
What was in before?
 

gpbeck

Messages
231
Might be worth investigating off peak electricity tariffs, and then using the immersion heater on the timer. It would only have to top up the temperature that your boiler can achieve.
 

dewsbury

Messages
23
There are a few ways of controlling the hot water and heating independently and at different temperatures.

Most boiler manufacturers will have controls available to do that but there are other ways of doing it using generic controls.

Even the generic route can be very basic or quite technical.

No offense meant at all to your heating engineer but you might be better with someone more experienced in that area unless you are willing to go through the learning curve with him (and pay for it). You never know, he may be willing to work cheaper to gain more experience. Discuss it with him.

Start by looking at the boiler manufacturers controls.

What boiler do you have and what cylinder? What underfloor heating manifold/manifolds?
Can you post photo's of your installation? or list the main components?
Is this a new installation or is just the boiler new?
What was in before?
 

dewsbury

Messages
23
There are a few ways of controlling the hot water and heating independently and at different temperatures.

Most boiler manufacturers will have controls available to do that but there are other ways of doing it using generic controls.

Even the generic route can be very basic or quite technical.

No offense meant at all to your heating engineer but you might be better with someone more experienced in that area unless you are willing to go through the learning curve with him (and pay for it). You never know, he may be willing to work cheaper to gain more experience. Discuss it with him.

Start by looking at the boiler manufacturers controls.

What boiler do you have and what cylinder? What underfloor heating manifold/manifolds?
Can you post photo's of your installation? or list the main components?
Is this a new installation or is just the boiler new?
What was in before?
Thanks you for your response.
Worcester Greenstar 800 life boiler was installed in 2020. Cylinder is new, big and about 6 feet tall. There is also a pump.
The UFG is 20 years old with 5 manifolds over 4 floors.

To put this in perspective, my gas bill for 2 winter months was almost 1,000 per month. Working from home did not help!
I feel out of control.
In winter I want the heating on low 24 hours. I want hot water on at much higher temp.
I know the amount of gas required to heat the water is not much.
However, I have a lack of trust that the system can be efficient with the UFH and also hot water. Different temp and different timings.

I am wondering if a second identical (?) boiler would eliminate my lack of trust and also reduce my gas bill.
Am I mad - wasting my money??
Perhaps it is just a simple tweak to my configuration?
Thanks again,
 

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Last Plumber

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
4,444
Thanks you for your response.
Worcester Greenstar 800 life boiler was installed in 2020. Cylinder is new, big and about 6 feet tall. There is also a pump.
The UFG is 20 years old with 5 manifolds over 4 floors.

To put this in perspective, my gas bill for 2 winter months was almost 1,000 per month. Working from home did not help!
I feel out of control.
In winter I want the heating on low 24 hours. I want hot water on at much higher temp.
I know the amount of gas required to heat the water is not much.
However, I have a lack of trust that the system can be efficient with the UFH and also hot water. Different temp and different timings.

I am wondering if a second identical (?) boiler would eliminate my lack of trust and also reduce my gas bill.
Am I mad - wasting my money??
Perhaps it is just a simple tweak to my configuration?
Thanks again,
£1000 per month on gas is a lot for a domestic property. Even a large one.
I would suggest you need a heating engineer to do a full report on your system. The help you need can't be found on a forum. Not even one as good as this !

You will have to pay for it but a few hundred pounds in your case will be well spent, in order to get a look at what the heat requirements for the property are and what you have (system wise) now. They should also be able to advise you on insulation, running temperatures, controls, as well as splitting the heating/hot water temperatures and times.

I suspect that your hot water is the least of your worries.

Just adding a second boiler won't make much difference I wouldn't think. Start with a report and work from there. That's my advice. That way, you will have all the right information to make an informed decision. It will be better than trial and error.
 

dewsbury

Messages
23
£1000 per month on gas is a lot for a domestic property. Even a large one.
I would suggest you need a heating engineer to do a full report on your system. The help you need can't be found on a forum. Not even one as good as this !

You will have to pay for it but a few hundred pounds in your case will be well spent, in order to get a look at what the heat requirements for the property are and what you have (system wise) now. They should also be able to advise you on insulation, running temperatures, controls, as well as splitting the heating/hot water temperatures and times.

I suspect that your hot water is the least of your worries.

Just adding a second boiler won't make much difference I wouldn't think. Start with a report and work from there. That's my advice. That way, you will have all the right information to make an informed decision. It will be better than trial and error.
Thanks again,
(By the way my bill of 1,000 is probably closed to 700 as it included elec and there was an estimated element).

I'll take your advice.
But how do I find a "heating engineer"? Is that basically just a good boilerman/plumber?
Or is it something different.
 

Last Plumber

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
4,444
Thanks again,
(By the way my bill of 1,000 is probably closed to 700 as it included elec and there was an estimated element).

I'll take your advice.
But how do I find a "heating engineer"? Is that basically just a good boilerman/plumber?
Or is it something different.
That's a good question.

I would describe them as someone who is competent in working on all aspects of a heating system in domestic and commercial premises. They should be competent and experienced enough to design, install and commission various types of heating system.

They will be competent in working on all component parts and aspects of a heating system e.g. boilers, pumps, pipework, valves, controls, associated electrics and electronics, fuel supply, ventilation, flues etc etc.

They will be competent in fault finding, service, alterations, repairs etc.

That's only my personal description.

How to find one is another story. A lot call themselves a Heating Engineer because it sounds technical.

I would ask around friends and family first, for recommendations. You want someone to come and assess your property and heating system with a view to improving efficiency. You could do with heat loss calculations and advice on the UFH system you have installed so you need someone who is experienced in those areas.
 

Ricky

Messages
44
I thought the lifestyle had the option for inbuilt diverter to be able to control the two diferent tempratures you need, it may not have been possible to fit it without a lot of repiping
 

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