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Discuss Why would this be fitted??? in the Renewable Energy area at PlumbersForums.net

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ShaunCorbs

Staff member
S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
I'm guessing someone got sold a lemon / standard gd bull crap
 
OP
Riley

Riley

S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Well that’s my logic. It’s in a newly refurbished property and I can’t see the reasoning for such a spec. It’s an old house that’s been modernised. Just can’t put my finger on it
 
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Riley

Riley

S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Yeah could be a grant I suppose I’m meeting the current owner tomorrow so I’ll ask I just wanted to see if anyone had any logical reasoning
 

quality

Plumber
Gas Engineer
They do work very and very efficiently the heat time is from a full tank of cold water but the annoying thing is every time you run any more than 2-3 liters of hot water it operates to top the temperature up. Have a quick google at the refrigerant used lol
 
OP
Riley

Riley

S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Are they super efficient?? I was just trying to fathom why, when you’ve fitted a gas boiler would you go for this type of water heating set up. I’m not very familiar with them as you can tell. I see Dimplex though and I get a cold shiver down my spine
 

oz-plumber

Esteemed
Plumber
In real terms, because someone selling the product was on some huge bonus scheme for each product sold.

In reality, due to the refrigerant process, 1 kW of electricity was transferred into @ 3 kW of heating capacity. This would show a customer that they are @ 300% efficient. ( COP )
And the cost saving would have been displayed to the customer on those terms.
In depth reality, the heating by the refrigerant would only heat the cylinder to 45C and a booster element would be operated to heat the water another 20C to 65C ( COP - 0.6 -0.8 ) - not found in any documentation.

We have installed numerous units of this type over the years to replace electric hot water units - for a supposed cost saving to the customer on running costs.

My consensus on these units are, if the refrigerant side of the unit breaks down with in the warranty period it will be worth fixing under warranty. If the refrigerant side of the unit breaks down outside the warranty period - throw the unit away because the cost of repairs would far outweigh the supposed saving on electricity use.

I have no idea why you would install an electric storage heater on a property that had gas available.
 
OP
Riley

Riley

S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
No it’s not. It’s a stand alone direct air source water heater. So switch it off no hot water. Boiler is a heat only for the CH
 
My first guess is that whoever refurbished the building was aiming for Part L BR compliance based on a whole building calculation but it turned out short. So they installed one of these as a way to drive down the CO2 input figure.

IMO, the economics of this type of gadget is at best marginal when comparing (gas bill+maintenance) vs (leccy bill+maintenance). You need some other reason (subsidy, grant, BR compliance, green ideology) to tip the balance.
 
OP
Riley

Riley

S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Well this is my take entirely. If you’re going for the green option then you have to be seen to improve insulation and general property energy efficiency. This is a 50-60 year old property so you’d have to go gung-ho in terms of improving heat retention and the general heat loss factors of the property. This one has done none of this except throw in an air source cylinder. I wouldn’t even say it’s a great cylinder as it only has 5 year warranty on the cylinder and 2 years on the actual mechanics. Would just seem to be so many better options out there
 

dan_the_plumber

Gas Engineer
Has the cylinder got an additional coil inside piped off the central heating circuit?
Heat pumps generally only heat water to 55 degrees.
In order to take the temperature up to the required 60-65 degrees, an emersion heater or additional coil is often used.
 
OP
Riley

Riley

S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
This is exactly it mate. There’s a brand new system boiler downstairs which serves just the heating. The cylinder is totally separate. Direct ashp backed up by immersion.
 
...Have a quick google at the refrigerant used lol
Propane is fairly commonly used as refrigerant in most first world countries nowadays, it's efficient and allows for smaller condensor coils than older gasses therefor cheaper price point. The system only contains 140 grams which is less than the amount in a cigarette lighter refil aerosol can and certain precautions are taken such as segregation of electrical switch gear etc.
 

quality

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Propane is fairly commonly used as refrigerant in most first world countries nowadays, it's efficient and allows for smaller condensor coils than older gasses therefor cheaper price point. The system only contains 140 grams which is less than the amount in a cigarette lighter refil aerosol can and certain precautions are taken such as segregation of electrical switch gear etc.
I agree on some points Hydrocarbon refrigerants have seen a massive surge in their use over the last 10 years although it has nothing to do with the size of these condensor
 
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