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Personally I've come across quite a few gas people who see wet plumbing as something 'below' them. They are the kind of people I refuse to associate with.

In a discussion not too long ago, a Twatter friend and I spent some time jotting down the 'difference' between these so called Gas Engineers, wet plumbers and real plumbers.

It turned out that the snobbery was mostly associated with people not too long in our industry. People who were swayed by the BS advertising of courses and promises of huge sums of money. Interestingly we also found those same people were also more likely to be the ones ripping folk off!

What we found was that those people had a very limited knowledge of plumbing as they had no interest in it. Their gas knowledge seemed very high but some had little idea of system design.

Wet plumbers on the other hand generally had very very wide knowledge but it was no where near as specialised until you got to sad s0ds like me and say taps or shower systems.

Then we go to what we termed real plumbers. The guys and gals who took teh time & trouble to (annoyingly) learn it all. They tended to enjoy fault finding, the more challenging jobs, solving problems. These people were the sages, the thinkers the more considered ones. The people who, no matter what, knew they would NEVER know it all.

Fact is, we all come under the huge umbrella of Plumbing. But just like say food the variation and passion for the variant is huge and deep. Me, I'd never eat Tofu again cos its sh1te. Some people love it tho. Does that make 'em a bad person? No it doesn't it just goes to show we is all different and should cut one another a little more slack more often rather than jump down one anothers throats.

Happt Easter! :)
 
My tuppence-

I always figured a hearing engineer worked heating systems (and was therefore usually GS refistered).

By default, a plumber worked on everything else the heating engineer did not.

Heating engineers earn more than plumbers ( usually) because of the increased liabilities (and I did not say skill!).

The definitions get muddled as more people work on both. Fit a boiler? Chances are the homeowner will call you when their taps are leaking.
 
Roy Treloar doesn’t differentiate himself too much. I have a book of his called plumbing, which has sections on plumbing, wet central heating, gas, unvented cylinders etc, even a small section on electrics. I think people who were writing their own job description, or just wanted to be different, possibly came up with the different name so they could earn more money. I have people I work with who were just plumbers, now calling themselves a gas engineer because they see it as superior.
 
I knew a plumber who once said he was a bathroom designer to a guy in the pub my 2 cents is i will always say I'm a heating engineer to a girl i fancy and mostly a plumber to anyone else. I agree, i do new builds so we do everything in house in regards to gas, plumbing, lead, heating from 1st fix to 2nd and i would say most of us just call ourselves plumbers.
 
i trained with British gas as an apprentice gas fitter started 1973, during my apprenticeship we had electrical training and after all fitters had the same update to their training we were then re-classified as gas engineers. as i worked mostly on boilers and heating as most guys who left british gas did i adopted the gas heating engineer name as its easier to relay to customers. i dont think i am superior to plumbers as there is work they can do i cant do and vice versa. the majority of plumbing works never interested me the art of drainage and gutters i leave to them in the know but all other plumbing work i can do. the major difference between gas/heating engineers and plumbers is that the gas/heating engineer probably will carry out a lot more boiler breakdowns. plus not every plumber is gas safe registered.
 
Maybe so Craig,

That’s kind of my experience with competence, heating or gas engineer immediately makes me think career change cowboy. To me the craft is in pipework and installation.

Unless, of course, you are a "proper" gas service engineer, with C&G and 3/4 year proper apprenticeship to prove it.

.
 
Unless, of course, you are a "proper" gas service engineer, with C&G and 3/4 year proper apprenticeship to prove it.

.
0r 4 year apprenticeship city and guild, intermediate and final gas utilisation, institute of fuel diploma and level 3 Nvq
 
Or seen a few videos on U-tube, skipped most of it 'cos it was boring but me mate down the pub said it would be alright as his uncle did it once - or was that change the brake pads on his car? - still it looks pretty easy
 
So,

Gas Plumbers?

Plumbing Engineers?

Gas Plumbers?

From the OED's definition of an engineer-

"A person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures"

Does someone who is GS maintain a 'heat engine'? This might be stretching the definition but...does a plumber meet any of the definitions of an engineer?

[Lights fuse and retreats to a safe distance]
 
So,

Gas Plumbers?

Plumbing Engineers?

Gas Plumbers?

From the OED's definition of an engineer-

"A person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures"

Does someone who is GS maintain a 'heat engine'? This might be stretching the definition but...does a plumber meet any of the definitions of an engineer?

[Lights fuse and retreats to a safe distance]

Engineer is one of the most abused terms In the English language. In Germany for example it’s a protected title in the same way you can’t just call yourself Lord/Lady/Reverend in the U.K. It’s the same in America where there is a lot more respect for the term technician.

I had a guy knock on my door when we moved into a new house and introduce himself at a “clear wall maintenance engineer” after a brief pause he had to explain he was actually a window cleaner.

Engineer seems to have been adopted in a lot of situations simply to justify higher day rates.

It’s no different to a nurse and a doctor, one is not better than the other but generally neither is qualified to use use the others title.
 
Pushfit and DIY has not the plumbing industry any favours. Public think it's easy..

Fittings in general becoming very cheap probably hasn’t done plumbing any favours. It seems a lot more common these days to see an elbow where you may well have seen a pulled bend 20 years ago. Part of the throwaway society we live in today I guess.
 
I'm gas safe, i don't mind. I just vibe out the job im on and I'll call myself a plumber if its plumbing, gas engineer if im there for a boiler. Whatever makes the customer feel at ease.
 
The trade of plumbing originates from the Latin and chemical symbol for lead. There can't be many on here that have ever wiped a joint with moleskin. I was apprenticed as a coppersmith, my first test piece was to make a ball float from scratch, soft soldering the seams with irons. we made scotch joints and saddles from 2 " copper filled with resin, bent with 6' iron bars with the pipe chocked on a slab with wooden wedges. I learnt silver soldering and brazing, and in my trade test I manufactured a complicated 2" pipe between flanges to a tolerance that allowed only one test fitting. I served as a Royal Naval Artificer, and subsequently worked for 10 years in building services, I ply my trade in property maintenance now, and accept work involving plumbing, but never call myself a plumber, because I didn't serve the time. You earn the right to call yourself a plumber, you earn the right, and pay for it to become GSR. Engineer is a professional title and usually is bestowed upon those who have qualified to become members of an institution (mine was I Plant E until I lapsed it). Being multi skilled is not a crime as long as one does not profess to be that which he isn't
 
As the post above alludes to, trade skills change overtime & have always done so, what I learnt as an apprentice is hardly ever practiced now-a-days (lead work, bronze welding & brazing copper, below ground & roof drainage, to name but a few in my case).
Instead I have had to learn new ones, changing & adapting to new products, technology's & work opportunities as they come along.

Surely that is why we love Plumbing so much!! ?

Some want to specialise or stick just to certain areas of the trade & that is fine but what concerns me is the move to hive off bits into separate trades or professions.
So come on tell me what the core skills & knowledge you all think a newly qualified Plumber should possess to be able to start their journey ?
PS. I will start a new thread if you don't mind as I would really be interested in your lists.
 
Crumbs! that all got a bit heated to begin with. Let's have more mutual respect, folks - after all, we are all in the same trade, albeit with varied specialisms.
 
Gas Engineer just sounds better, plus gas is dangerous and danger equals charging more money! Plus who wants to touch a dirty toilet or Rubbish pipe...not me!
 
Engineer is one of the most abused terms In the English language. In Germany for example it’s a protected title in the same way you can’t just call yourself Lord/Lady/Reverend in the U.K. It’s the same in America where there is a lot more respect for the term technician.

I had a guy knock on my door when we moved into a new house and introduce himself at a “clear wall maintenance engineer” after a brief pause he had to explain he was actually a window cleaner.

Engineer seems to have been adopted in a lot of situations simply to justify higher day rates.

It’s no different to a nurse and a doctor, one is not better than the other but generally neither is qualified to use use the others title.
Oh, here we go again. Don’t tell me, you’ve got s degree in engineering and you feel as if you’re entitled to calling yourself an engineer!! If I’m not mistaken, it’s not that difficult to get a degree neither these days..... just turn up and see the course through. Looks a lot the calibre of graduates who get degree’s.... haven’t an ounce of common, who can put their BSc to work.
 
Oh, here we go again. Don’t tell me, you’ve got s degree in engineering and you feel as if you’re entitled to calling yourself an engineer!! If I’m not mistaken, it’s not that difficult to get a degree neither these days... just turn up and see the course through. Looks a lot the calibre of graduates who get degree’s.. haven’t an ounce of common, who can put their BSc to work.

To be fair, and yes I know that's not how this works on here, it is true that elsewhere in the world one does have to properly qualify to even be called an engineer. Engineering is not the dirty word it has become in the UK.

Further, and no I am not clever enough to have a degree, I challenge one and all on here without a degree to do any of the mechanical **** my lad did during his 4 genuinely hard years of studying for his Avionics degree.

We all know of kids who gain degrees by 'turning up' but, trying to be fair, they are mostly in non-degrees like media studies or mixology or other such stuff.

With regard to common sense and other life skills, who on here would take on their 18 year old self? I bl00dy wouldn't! We old g1ts are far too quick to criticise our offspring when the root cause of their failings is ME & YOU not them.
WE have raised them to be lazy sh1ts,
WE have raised 'em to not care less, it's
WE who have to take responsibility for their inadequacies and it's
WE who can change it for the next generation... :D:rolleyes:
 
Oh, here we go again. Don’t tell me, you’ve got s degree in engineering and you feel as if you’re entitled to calling yourself an engineer!! If I’m not mistaken, it’s not that difficult to get a degree neither these days... just turn up and see the course through. Looks a lot the calibre of graduates who get degree’s.. haven’t an ounce of common, who can put their BSc to work.

Being an engineer has little to do with formal education. It generally helps speed things up but plenty of people gain accreditation as a professional engineer with only an HNC.

To gain chartered status you need to demonstrate a period of responsible duties, produce a portfolio and the generally have a series of interviews to demonstrate your discipline knowledge to a group of your peers.

I’m sure there will be guys working with hearing systems who have the knowledge to gain professional accreditation but have never gone through the process in the same way there will be people working as handy men who have the skills to be plumbers or install heating systems but that doesn’t give every handy man the right to call himself a plumber.
 
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