Where is This Leak Coming From?

[OscarZee]

There is a drip coming from the ceiling in the living room and down the inside of a shared wall. There is no plumbing upstairs except in the bathroom. No radiator in the room above where the drip is. There is one in the bathroom which hasn't worked for years - the house has no central heating.

So I turned all the water off, drained the hot tank, flushed the taps and toilet, waited for a couple of hours but no change. So that seems to eliminate the bathroom water supply being the problem.

There is a flat roof where water could get in to this back room if there were gaps in the flashing or brickwork, possibly, but I had a look and it's all dry with no leaks.

Went into the attic - water tank is distant from where the problem is and it's got a whole floor between it and the living room - saw no issues and also looked along the inside of the roof where it slopes but nothing found. The floor of the room above where the leak is is is apparently dry - will need to check tomorrow.

I have dropped a note round to next door to ask if they might have a leaky radiator - does that sound possible? If they had a radiator adjoining the shared wall, as it's a back room it may not get used much and they may not have noticed anything - or maybe they wouldn't - perhaps the problem is hidden and the water is finding the easy route, which avoids the neighbours encountering signs of a leak. Does that sound kind of sensible?

I plan to take up the flooboards later if I have to. I should be able to see the ceiling and maybe locate the problem. The only possible thing I can imagine if the problem is on our side is that there was a radiator in that room previously and in the place where the leak seems to be and got removed - maybe leaving an end of a pipe under the flooboards which has now sprung a leak. Does that sound right at all?

Thanks for any advice - I'm out of ideas other than the above.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

What type of property is it? Eg, terraced, semi detached et al.

 

[OscarZee]

It's the middle house in a terrace of three.

It isn't anything to do with next door - I have been told I will need to look under the floorboards. Don't know why there was still dripping after water being off 2 hours - maybe there is a pipe going under the floor connected to a radiator that was there before - but does it have a different source for water? Where would that be?

 

[Murdoch]

The problem with water leaks is that water will make its way to the lowest point before coming through a ceiling …… so the leak could be anywhere tbh

 

[OscarZee]

The problem with water leaks is that water will make its way to the lowest point before coming through a ceiling …… so the leak could be anywhere tbh

Thanks. Yes, I get your point.

Given that I had the water off for 2 hours, and the leak stayed the same, could the leak still be coming from the bathroom? I had a couple of issues before, and when I turned off the water the leaks stopped almost immediately. So I really don't see how it can be from the bathroom. Unless the radiator is connected so as to bypass the mains supply to upstairs?

The water would have had to travel across about 11 feet to get to the other side where the leak is, so if it were in the bathroom it's a long way to go without seeing any damage anywhere else. If the radiator or pipework in the bathroom were leaking I would expect it to come through the bathroom floor and drip at the opposite side of the living room, diectly underneath the bathroom. The flooring is a bit poor with gaps and a few small holes, and any leakage would almost definitely show up before it reached the opposite side of the adjacent bedroom.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

It depends if it’s just a buildup. Turning off the main if it’s been going for some time, might need a while to stop.

 

[OscarZee]

It depends if it’s just a buildup. Turning off the main if it’s been going for some time, might need a while to stop.

How long max, do you think? It's off now for up to 6 hours if need be. Do you think it should have at least subsided a bit after this long?

I turned off water and drained the hot tank and toilet cistern so nothing should come through at all after a while. If that can be ruled out I can move on to lifting the floorboards in the bedroom to take a look, as that's the next thing which seems logical to check.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Did you drain the complete hot water tank, or just run the taps? Could be on the heating circuit. If it’s been off for 6 hours, I’d expect it to have stopped by now.

 

[OscarZee]

Did you drain the complete hot water tank, or just run the taps? Could be on the heating circuit. If it’s been off for 6 hours, I’d expect it to have stopped by now.

Thanks for all of your input.

Turns out there previously WAS a radiator in the bedroom after all - right above where the drip is. There was a boiler downstairs which connected to the upstairs radiators, but that system was shut off. But the heating system was fed by a tank in the loft, which seems to be where the water is originating. It was supposed to be empty but keeps refilling, it seems.

The solution suggested is that we lift the ballcock in the loft tank so as to stop the tank refilling, then drain it with a jug and let the rest drip through. That way there will be an empty tank, so no water should then come out through any of the central heating pipes.

Don't know if there is a cut off for the up/down water supply to the tank - the loft pipes have foam lagging between tank and loft floor so can't see just yet. Turning off either the inflow or outflow would seem to be a solution - if we can locate a knob. The loft tank may not have any way of regulating the water flow at the tank end. It may need doing somewhere beneath it, possibly the boiler cupboard.

The pipes from the loft tank go down to the boiler cupboard, and there is a turn-knob on one pipe - not necessarily going to the loft - it's hard to tell - but it is too stiff to turn easily. Probably unrelated. Can't seem to see any way to control the flow to the loft tank - the pipe to it goes from a T junction that also feeds the main water tank above the boiler, and there is no independent control for this up pipe to the loft that I can see. Maybe there is no control for safety reasons or whatever.

Not being confident to mess with the loft tank and the ballcock I'm awaiting assistance for tomorrow so we can get it done. There was some concern about the loft tank being part of the safety features for the main supply - as an overflow in case of boiler problems. But it does seem that the loft tank isn't needed for this. Not 100% on that.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

As long as the overflow pipe is connected and the vent pipe is ok, then all should be ok safety wise. As for isolating the cold feed, unless there is a shut off valve, then tying /propping up the ball valve is next best. Ball valve should be brass, so should be easy enough - a piece of 2x1 timber usually, but do an internet search for “tying up a ballcock” and there seems to be plenty of YouTube videos.

 

[OscarZee]

As long as the overflow pipe is connected and the vent pipe is ok, then all should be ok safety wise. As for isolating the cold feed, unless there is a shut off valve, then tying /propping up the ball valve is next best. Ball valve should be brass, so should be easy enough - a piece of 2x1 timber usually, but do an internet search for “tying up a ballcock” and there seems to be plenty of YouTube videos.

That worked. The ballcock had already been tied up at some point, but had apparently come a bit loose. Can't really tell if the seemingly gradually dropping ballcock caused the issue recently or not by it finally contacting the water level and thus causing the faulty pipe to drip at the other end, or if it was like that for a while and the pipe recently sprung a leak.

This is the third plumbing problem I have managed to fix in a matter of months. And although it's always stressful to get a leak - 3 of them to be exact - and I haven't got much of a clue, and even though messing with pipes can be messy and awkward and frustrating, it turns out that I quite like plumbing!

If I were not 62 I'd seriously think about getting a qualification. I think it's the problem solving aspect I like. I can be a bit clumsy and absent minded so it's probably not for me anyway - but still - I'd definitely consider plumbing as a career if I were younger.