What is a 'glitch' in a modern condensing boiler

[Creaky]

Hi

We have quite a new wall hung boiler (18 months). Twice since being installed it has just stopped overnight (1 last year, 1 recently). Our engineer reset it and looked for any problem, he could not find any and said it could just be a 'glitch'. I know roughly what a ' glitch ' is in electrical/computing terms (anything temporary which has thrown the signal so it just doesn't work for a bit and may need rebooting ... ) but I have no idea what a 'glitch' in a gas/heating system might be. Can anyone explain for me?

Thanks for any enlightenment.

 

[Jerry]

Hmmm.
Intermittent fault? Please break it properly so the engineer knows what's causing the problem.

 

[Creaky]

Hmmm.
Intermittent fault? Please break it properly so the engineer knows what's causing the problem.

Thank you for being the only one to attempt a reply! I was hoping to get a few very generalised comments about central heating glitches, but I guess by 'public' here they mean public who already know things!

I found out in the small print of the small instruction book that short electrical outages can cause a stoppage, so it could be electrical after all. The only surprise is it doesn't happen more often these days.

Regards Creaky

 

[PETE 123]

Could even be a power cut for a sec to cause that.

 

[IND_Nick]

Was there an error code on the boiler?

 

[Creaky]

Was there an error code on the boiler?

It's one of those that flashes, but we followed the lead of our engineer last year and simply re set it. If it happens again (it hasn't in the intervening time) we will chase him up for answers.

 

[Creaky]

Could even be a power cut for a sec to cause that.

Thank you Pete, it's a help just knowing that.

 

[fowlerboi]

Which boiler?

I had a Worcester 8000 life 30kw where the case would rub against the overheat stat on really cold days. Common issue apparently and was fixed with a bit of duct tape stuck to the case to prevent a short

 

[Last Plumber]

If you have ruled out the condensate pipe freezing overnight then I suppose it could be an electronic issue.

I know of a few episodes where a spike in the supply caused damage to heating components but it was permanent damage and the components had to be replaced. On a couple of occasions it was a farm on the end of an over ground supply that suffered fluctuations in supply voltage and it saw off a component on a pump circuit board. Another was caused by old household appliances switching, or at least that was the conclusion we came to. Again, that was permanent damage to a programmer.

Another possibility is the controls but I don't know what you have?
If it is something like ebus, that can be effected by an induced voltage from nearby cables or electrical equipment and it doesn't take much as they use relatively small variations to create the commands. The controls which function via the ebus side can be 'confused' and stop working or behave in a strange way.

 

[oz-plumber]

The most common 'glitch' I find in condensing boilers is generally the flame sense electrode.
The second most common fault I find is the condensate sensor.

Both can or will throw up error codes that will not direct you to the problem directly.

 

[IND_Nick]

As above, we cover a lot of rental properties and get constant call outs for 'flame failure'. Once checked there's no apparent reason why, a quick reset and boiler works flawlessly going forward.

 

[Chuck]

I found out in the small print of the small instruction book that short electrical outages can cause a stoppage, so it could be electrical after all. The only surprise is it doesn't happen more often these days.

A boiler of that age shouldn't be 'glitching'. I suggest you keep a diary of the dates and times it happens and once you have at least three incidents logged contact the manufacturer's customer support line and get them to investigate under warranty.

Equipment sold in the UK has to comply with regulations (Electromagnetic Compatibility Regulations, 2016) that make it immune from electrical interference. Inter alia, these say that

"b) the equipment has a level of immunity to the electromagnetic disturbance to be expected in its intended use which allows it to operate without unacceptable degradation of its intended use."

Equipment that is connected to the mains also has to be designed be immune from mains transients. Unless, as @Last Plumber suggests, you're on a farm in the middle of nowhere, it's unlikely to be problems with the mains supply. (Ask the neighbours if they've noticed any issues.) In extremis, you can buy/rent a mains monitor that will log transients and can be used as evidence.

It could, of course, be a dodgy contact somewhere in your house wiring but that's a bit of a stretch if the boiler is the only item affected. An electrician will be able to test the implicated wiring. If you haven't had an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) for the whole house done recently, now might be the time to get one.

 

[Creaky]

Could even be a power cut for a sec to cause that.

Thank you Pete, it's a help just knowing that.

Which boiler?

I had a Worcester 8000 life 30kw where the case would rub against the overheat stat on really cold days. Common issue apparently and was fixed with a bit of duct tape stuck to the case to prevent a short

Thank you. It's a Worcester Bosch Greenstar Ri. We will look out for that. I am sure we have duct tape

 

[Creaky]

If you have ruled out the condensate pipe freezing overnight then I suppose it could be an electronic issue.

I know of a few episodes where a spike in the supply caused damage to heating components but it was permanent damage and the components had to be replaced. On a couple of occasions it was a farm on the end of an over ground supply that suffered fluctuations in supply voltage and it saw off a component on a pump circuit board. Another was caused by old household appliances switching, or at least that was the conclusion we came to. Again, that was permanent damage to a programmer.

Another possibility is the controls but I don't know what you have?
If it is something like ebus, that can be effected by an induced voltage from nearby cables or electrical equipment and it doesn't take much as they use relatively small variations to create the commands. The controls which function via the ebus side can be 'confused' and stop working or behave in a strange way.

Thank you for that. I'm happy to say that there's no sign of permanent damage. I'll pass on the info about the ebus.

Sorry about the delay replying. The file gets buried by other things.

 

[Creaky]

The most common 'glitch' I find in condensing boilers is generally the flame sense electrode.
The second most common fault I find is the condensate sensor.

Both can or will throw up error codes that will not direct you to the problem directly.

Thank you. It is a help knowing what other people see most. (And the vague error code rings a bell too.)

 

[Creaky]

A boiler of that age shouldn't be 'glitching'. I suggest you keep a diary of the dates and times it happens and once you have at least three incidents logged contact the manufacturer's customer support line and get them to investigate under warranty.

Equipment sold in the UK has to comply with regulations (Electromagnetic Compatibility Regulations, 2016) that make it immune from electrical interference. Inter alia, these say that

"b) the equipment has a level of immunity to the electromagnetic disturbance to be expected in its intended use which allows it to operate without unacceptable degradation of its intended use."

Equipment that is connected to the mains also has to be designed be immune from mains transients. Unless, as @Last Plumber suggests, you're on a farm in the middle of nowhere, it's unlikely to be problems with the mains supply. (Ask the neighbours if they've noticed any issues.) In extremis, you can buy/rent a mains monitor that will log transients and can be used as evidence.

It could, of course, be a dodgy contact somewhere in your house wiring but that's a bit of a stretch if the boiler is the only item affected. An electrician will be able to test the implicated wiring. If you haven't had an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) for the whole house done recently, now might be the time to get one.

Thank you very much for those details. We're on a big estate, and although we do get outages from time to time, on the whole the supply is not a problem, and we haven't noticed anything else being affected at the same time.

A long time ago I knew someone who designed a Mains Monitor. I wonder where he is now? To our relief, it hasn't recurred, and if it doesn't recur until next February, I won't be unhappy!

Again thanks to everyone for their time.