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Discuss what flue gas analyser ? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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I have the Kane 425 with all the extras, had it for 5 years it is very simple to use.
 
how do I stand doing landlord certs without my analyser never been without one but not getting one until next wk
 
Just think how we did landlord tickets before ? If its not a condensing boiler you can run all the checks without one, i run all my checks first the old way and then use the analyser to back up my findings not keen on just using a machine to service a gas appliance, last month i went to look at a boiler that was acting strange british gas had been to service it the week before only using an analyser and the reading were ok, i took the front of the heat exchanger and bingo half full of carbon so dont worry to much about the analyser they can give false readings.

i use a sprint very easy to use but expensive to maintain, but havin said that if its paying its way then it dont matter
 
analyser will give false readings if not calibrated imo

however i still do a full check up gas rates etc etc then analyse myself
 
I was advised by GSR that if you're testing a non condensing boiler, you may not be required to record your ratio. Then again, they weren't fully committed to their words when they said it. Leaves a get out claws if you catch my drift.
 
They even have planted that concept even in their recorded message, only they don't call it a get out claws!
 
I haven't got all those pretty pictures under my name! Sorry a bit new here! :cyclist:
 
you dont need to do any fga readings on a landlords cert, unless the appliance manufacturer requires it.
 
had a testo, prefer the kane.
 
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I just bought a Kane 455 CPA1 Kit from BES, can someone please tell me when the first calibration is due, would it be 12 months after the date of purchase or 12 months after the date on the Analyser Test Report which reads 30/01/2013 ?
 
It will tell you on it. One of the buttons to the left of the ratio. Menu maybe. Cannot remember
 
I've got a Anton Evo2 and love it. Had a Sprint 2 before this. Tryed kane before but the printers take forever on them and the screens tiny unless you folk out for the decent model. I'll recommend Anton's any day of the week!
 
I've got a Anton Evo2 and love it. Had a Sprint 2 before this. Tryed kane before but the printers take forever on them and the screens tiny unless you folk out for the decent model. I'll recommend Anton's any day of the week!

There are miles more to an analyser than what you just described. On every aspect Kane is a more superior product. I've benchmarked my own Anton against Kane and it scored lower on nearly everything. Too much to go into her, but what if I was to tell you that you will have to spend equivalent to a price of an analyser for the exchange of its sensors over the space of 6 years! Your and my Anton analyser uses electrochemical sensors and the O2 sensor will deplete under 2 years, whether you use it or not. I could have my Anton on the shelve and pick it up in 2 years time and hey presto, another £230 for new sensors. Kane uses infrared technology, sensors don't have to be changed for up to 6 years and it's more accurate too. Like I said, there are a lot more to an anlyser than what you kust described.
 
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I agree. I'm using an Evo2 at the moment, I'd go back to a Kane 455 or 457 in a heartbeat!
 
I agree. I'm using an Evo2 at the moment, I'd go back to a Kane 455 or 457 in a heartbeat!
JC, The 457 is two analyser in one as I am sure you already know. I made sure the wife knows that too, I'm sure I have an special occasion coming up soon!
 
Aye I've been looking at it Rez, then disappearing into a small room on my own for 10 minutes or so!

If I'd have known 3 months ago it was coming out I would've made my company hold on!
 
If you got an Anton, expect to see this every two year, £175 +VAT every time you get this screen!
image.jpg
 
We got the technical director from Kane on our forum this evening, lots of information people need to know on analysers. If you do a lot of Worcesters then setting the CO2 would require very tight margins. Any analyser that runs on electro-chemical sensors, will not be able to produce the requested tolerances. This evening session should be a very informative event. Many of you are already a member of our forum "Gas Engineers Forum" on Facebook. I do insist on GSR members only. If you want to take part in the conversation, send me a request to join the group as soon as. Thank you, Reza.
 
Has to be the Kane 455. It is simple and does everything. Far better than the Testo that only ever tested my patience!
 
It was a great live chat yesterday evening with forum members and the technical director at Kane International. I thought you may want to see some informative comments that was made regards the technology used in portable Gas Flue analysers.

Hi Derek with the Kane 455 we use Infra-red technology to measure the CO2 and our own Monox sensor to measure CO. the Infra-red sensor has an infinite life as there is no deterioration like an electro-chemical sensor, the Monox Co sensor is expected to last approximately 7 years.The 455 now comes with a 6 year warranty and cost just £84 per year for check-recal & certification. this will cover all internal parts.

There are two main benefits to using Infra-red sensors over electro-chemical. The first is the long life allows us to fix the cost of ownership so there are no nasty surprises in 18 months-2 years. The second is the greater accuracy you get when directly measuring CO2 as oppose to calculating CO2 like the Anton or Testo.

The Kane 455 works very well with the Worcester range as i say the accuracy of the CO2 measurement helps with 0.2% either side of the book target you you need to know the true reading. Also the 455 has an auxiliary screen that allows you to customise the readings so you can perform a negative pressure reading when required by certain models at the same time you are analysing the flue gases, this will provide with a report with both readings on.

The resolution for our CO2 sensor is 0.1% and the accuracy +/- 0.2% of reading.

There is an issue when using electro-chemical sensors when the CO2 content is high. As a manufacturer we made the decision 4 years ago to stop using this old technology and invest in developing our range of Infra-red sensors. As the CO2 gets higher in say high efficiency gas boiler or an Oil boiler a chemical 02 sensor gets less and less accurate. this could lead to an engineer making unnecessary adjustments to the boiler.

Most of the other models available to in this country apart from Kane use chemical sensors usually supplied by City Technology. This company acknowledges there is an issue and on there own website they have made a statement to this affect.

Another issue I have with the Anton/Worcester combination, some older boilers were fitted with a Prettl valve which when it breaks send the gas/air ratio out to thousands ppm, this quickly destroys the sensors, how would Kane cope with say 2000ppm?
The 455 will measure up to 4000ppm for 15 minutes and then purge the sensor. it will not saturate the sensor as it will clear in approximate 5 minutes. If you saturate an chemical sensor with high CO in can take a very long time to clear if you are lucky, if your not lucky it may need replacing. At Kane's we had all of these issues back in 2008 i am glad the dark days are over for us.

The new Kane 457 is designed to EN50379, BS7967 and BS8494 this is the only analyser currently available to all three standards. the Kane 455 is designed to EN50379 & BS7967 and is the only analyser to have been independently approved to these standards.

Room CO testing or fumes investigation is now a more commonly used function on a flue gas analyser as more customers are using CO alarms. the 455 will perform a 15 or 30 minute room test to check the levels of carbon monoxide. As all you guys are now CPA1 qualified this is something that would have been shown and discussed when taking that assessment. The 457 will perform again a 15 or 30 minute room air test the difference being its monitoring CO levels and CO2 levels this is required when testing to CMDDA1 level.
 
How much commission did you make? :29:

Nstrum, it’s just as well you got the smiley faces on your comment and they seem to be accumulating. But I think it's a perfectly valid question. You probably won't believe the answer though any way. The point is mate, I am getting a lot of positive kicks from the members of the Gas Engineers Forum. It was very frustrating at first, but after all the time I vested in developing the forum, suddenly all the chips began to fall into their place. This week, three of our forum members used their networking initiatives and as a result they are working on one single project together this very minute, now that is how I get my benefit, not the materialistic kind mind you. For me anything that benefits us all at large is kind of a commission. If the kind of reform which I call for, suddenly gets implemented and all you guys get an order book full of jobs, then that's how I get my commission. The Kane saga is absolutely no different. I spent much of my life developing control and instrumentation projects, I used much of my knowledge and experience to bring the issue as it is to the members of our forum, no more no less. It is down to them to make the decision, but ask yourself this question, if it was for money, then I could have just as well approach Anton or Testo or indeed many others, but apart from researching their product, I didn't even go as far as contacting them. It's not rocket science to differentiate between the two technologies. I just think the manufacturers have been successful to pull a cover over the shortfall that their product has for all these years! The facts and data sheets speak for themselves. Incidentally talking of data sheets, here's one on the electro-chemical O2 sensor, probably used in some popular brands of analysers. Leaving Facebook... | Facebook
 
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just had my anton back form pts they do a fixed charge repairs with anton - cost £130 for calibration and sensor
 
£175 +vat and some one on our forum paid £300! It seems they charge whatever they can getaway with!
 
£84 plus vat is how much I spend in calibrating mine too ( I have the Kane 455). Not got much experience with other FGA's but I did notice while speaking to a rothenberger rep that they sell one. It's the Kane 455 rebranded, but made by Kane. I'm not sure if its any cheaper than just buying the Kane one but might be worth looking for. ( if your on a budget ) otherwise I recommend the Kane 455 anyday.

also just another thing, I hate rothenberger after the trouble I had with one of their freezing machines, but if their FGA is Kane's one then if its cheaper what the hell right?
 
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