What did i do wrong?

[Luggsey]

So, first plumbing job in years, bought solder, flux and MAP gas as shown.
15mm copper pipe, shined up, fluxed, absolute failure!
I'm a sparks by trade and solder a lot but not with a flame.
Am I right to assume map is far to hot for an amateur to work with, I cooked the pipe!
Advice where I'm going wrong please, I cant afford a plumber!
Cheers.
Paul.
[automerge]1587827746[/automerge]

So, first plumbing job in years, bought solder, flux and MAP gas as shown.
15mm copper pipe, shined up, fluxed, absolute failure!
I'm a sparks by trade and solder a lot but not with a flame.
Am I right to assume map is far to hot for an amateur to work with, I cooked the pipe!
Advice where I'm going wrong please, I cant afford a plumber!
Cheers.
Paul.

As a follow up, these bits are for a shower mixer, can I use JG speedfit for the link to the shower head with the supplied compression fitting or must I use a plastic fitting?

 

[snowhead]

Waaaaay tooo hot.
MAP on 15mm is overkill but with care will work.

 

[Luggsey]

I thought so, better get a propane bottle then I suppose if that will work better for me?

 

[JCplumb]

You're using the wrong insert on that shower connection.

 

[Luggsey]

Is it going to get complicated and require bits?
I struggle to get out obviously at the mo.
Is it better to use copper and teach myself how to set copper pipe or is there an easy way to use the plastic?
Cheers

 

[king of pipes]

Way to hot bud you can use it adjust the flame lower on your torch if possible , as for shower connection I would fit copper into the shower mixer then use a speedfit fitting to plastic . Regards kop

 

[SimonG]

Too hot, way too hot. Mapps fine, it's all I use but turn your flame down and keep pulling away from work and test with solder. Get yourself some lead free solder as well if you're working on potable water.

That's a super seal insert you've used on the speed fit. Not suitable for compression fittings and wont be covered by warranty if it all goes breasticles up.

 

[Luggsey]

Second go with less heat, not good enough but I'll persevere.
Thanks for advice!

 

[Chalked]

Too much heat with the soldering. And the top shower connection
looks like it needs a swivels connector or a female adapter. It hasn't got a machine face for the compression ring.
[automerge]1587831055[/automerge]
Plus that’s leaded solder and mustn’t be used on potable water. You need lead free.
you will have better results with lead free solder too.

 

[Luggsey]

Its a Bristan and the compression fittings came with it?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sharp Stanley blade and cut the top side of the oring

 

[Luggsey]

Found this fitting, this looks like the right one?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would say it’s a compression end eg nut and olive straight on

 

[Luggsey]

Found enough plastic fittings and non return shut off valves, not sure how much support these pipes need, would one clip for the head feed and one clip above each shut off valve be about right?

 

[centralheatking]

View attachment 43546Second go with less heat, not good enough but I'll persevere.
Thanks for advice!

Rather than apply the heat to the joint run the flame from say 1inch away accross the whole peice from inch away. Gently build the heat up until the solder just runs freely. Mapp gas gets up to 1600c and needs carefull experienced application. Go get a micky mouse diy propane To compare and start teaching yourself it’s a good skill to have. The opposite is butane in a cold house in mid winter took ages. Centralheatking

 

[Luggsey]

I tried as advised with the MAPP torch on the lowest flame it would stay lit with and had much better results, still not getting good solder flow but much better.
I just did a set in 15mm to replace the plastic feeding the shower head as it sticks out to far, not as good as my sparky tube but ok for a first go!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Is it blobbing or sucking into the joint ?

 

[SimonG]

Plenty of flux on it and make sure its 100% clean. Plenty of practice as well.

 

[Luggsey]

Is it blobbing or sucking into the joint ?

Both!
I think I need to shine the tube further past the fitting and use more flux!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Both!
I think I need to shine the tube further past the fitting and use more flux!

Are you cleaning both the fitting and the tube as for flux just a light coat all the way round the tube is more than enough

 

[Luggsey]

Plenty of flux on it and make sure its 100% clean. Plenty of practice as well.

I'm gonna get plenty of practice, five bed new build, done 150sq m underfloor heating downstairs now starting on the showers!
[automerge]1587844473[/automerge]

Are you cleaning both the fitting and the tube as for flux just a light coat all the way round the tube is more than enough

Yep, shining them up but maybe I need to shine the pipe more outside the fitting.
I'll get there with help!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It could be you have the flame too small now and all the flux is burning off before your adding the solder try turning the heat up a smidge maybe 1/3 of a turn on the valve

also Your using leaded solder switch to unleaded as you can’t use lead on water pipes these days

 

[Luggsey]

It could be you have the flame too small now and all the flux is burning off before your adding the solder try turning the heat up a smidge maybe 1/3 of a turn on the valve

also Your using leaded solder switch to unleaded as you can’t use lead on water pipes these days

I will try that tomorrow.
Cheers.

 

[Jim Goodenough]

Found enough plastic fittings and non return shut off valves, not sure how much support these pipes need, would one clip for the head feed and one clip above each shut off valve be about right?

I like the bracket for the fixed head

 

[Luggsey]

I like the bracket for the fixed head

I didn't know the accepted way of doing it so I got creative, really easy to be honest!

 

[king of pipes]

Luggsey dont use plastic to connect the shower up remember once its covered over your screwed if it leaks and looking at that first attempt your 50 50 at best bud sorry to p_ss on your parade but i wouldnt want ya to have failures down the line . Its really not that difficult to do in copper just add a few more noggings where you can screw a few brackets to, do the bracketing first clip ya copper pipes in they are easily removed for measuring a kick or set i have added a few pictures below of ones i have done how not to do aswell soldering is something that comes with practice and you really dont need loads of flux or heat clean the pipe with a cleaning pad if using brand new fitting theres no need to clean inside them , the flux only goes on the pipe a light smear is all thats needed and twist the fitting on to the pipe as you push it on swipe away the excess flux with a cloth apply a gentle heat and dab the solder on the joint when its hot enough you will see the solder run and be sucked into the joint (capillary action) always wipe the joint to clean off any runs and work tidy let it cool naturally then shine up with the cleaning pad.
[automerge]1587891583[/automerge]
Plenty of tips and how to do it on you tube bud

 

[Luggsey]

Are you cleaning both the fitting and the tube as for flux just a light coat all the way round the tube is more than enough

Yep, shining them up but maybe I need to shine the pipe more outside the fitting.
I'll get there with help!

Luggsey dont use plastic to connect the shower up remember once its covered over your screwed if it leaks and looking at that first attempt your 50 50 at best bud sorry to p_ss on your parade but i wouldnt want ya to have failures down the line . Its really not that difficult to do in copper just add a few more noggings where you can screw a few brackets to, do the bracketing first clip ya copper pipes in they are easily removed for measuring a kick or set i have added a few pictures below of ones i have done how not to do aswell soldering is something that comes with practice and you really dont need loads of flux or heat clean the pipe with a cleaning pad if using brand new fitting theres no need to clean inside them , the flux only goes on the pipe a light smear is all thats needed and twist the fitting on to the pipe as you push it on swipe away the excess flux with a cloth apply a gentle heat and dab the solder on the joint when its hot enough you will see the solder run and be sucked into the joint (capillary action) always wipe the joint to clean off any runs and work tidy let it cool naturally then shine up with the cleaning pad.
[automerge]1587891583[/automerge]
Plenty of tips and how to do it on you tube bud

Cheers, I can take criticism ok, that's what I need to help me improve things.
I spent the last half hour before dark bending up a bit of copper to go direct to the shower head without joins so that's the way I will do the rest of the showers.
I have three more showers to do so lots to learn!
I have plumbed a house in plastic before and found it a stress free experience, i know most plumbers frown on plastic, preferring copper, each to their own ability I suppose.
Paul.

 

[king of pipes]

We will help you out where we can mate but please change those tap connectors they are compression fittings on the shower valve and Just need a short section of copper a nut and olive tiny smear of paste assemble and tighten you can then adapt to plastic with the appropriate fitting . Regards kop

 

[Mrb]

this one is definitely my favourite

 

[Luggsey]

Luggsey dont use plastic to connect the shower up remember once its covered over your screwed if it leaks and looking at that first attempt your 50 50 at best bud sorry to p_ss on your parade but i wouldnt want ya to have failures down the line . Its really not that difficult to do in copper just add a few more noggings where you can screw a few brackets to, do the bracketing first clip ya copper pipes in they are easily removed for measuring a kick or set i have added a few pictures below of ones i have done how not to do aswell soldering is something that comes with practice and you really dont need loads of flux or heat clean the pipe with a cleaning pad if using brand new fitting theres no need to clean inside them , the flux only goes on the pipe a light smear is all thats needed and twist the fitting on to the pipe as you push it on swipe away the excess flux with a cloth apply a gentle heat and dab the solder on the joint when its hot enough you will see the solder run and be sucked into the joint (capillary action) always wipe the joint to clean off any runs and work tidy let it cool naturally then shine up with the cleaning pad.
[automerge]1587891583[/automerge]
Plenty of tips and how to do it on you tube bud

I had a rethink and used copper, looks better to me!

 

[king of pipes]

View attachment 43566

this one is definitely my favourite

Before and after pictures there bud surprising what you find hidden away they are the original scorch marks in both pictures . Kop
[automerge]1587917323[/automerge]

View attachment 43566

this one is definitely my favourite

Before and after pictures there bud surprising what you find hidden away

 

[moonlight]

Will the isolation valves be accessible when you put up the plaster board?

 

[king of pipes]

Always a pain to fit isolation valves and access them but its a water regulation and must be done, in a new build I like to manifold everything that way every water outlet can have its own isolation valve and fewer fittings. Kop

 

[Luggsey]

Will the isolation valves be accessible when you put up the plaster board?

I was going to fit the plastic framed access panel to do that, trying to work it where I know furniture will be.
Kop if I used a manifold I thought it would leave many cold legs and I have set up a comfort pump so couldn't do it that way?

 

[king of pipes]

Why ? It's no different all your pipework will have water in , I think you mean dead legs bud ? not really a issue in a medium size house, a secondary pump can be fitted if you want this circulates hot water to the points of use in your home usually Via a timed pump but obviously it involves extra pipework. Regards kop