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Discuss Trying to improve a loo! in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

T

Toiletdrip

Hi,

Newbie here, and I hope that I'm posting in the correct place - apologies if not. I hope this question might prove an interesting one, and one which somebody may kindly be able to answer from their own experience.

I have a loo which is very bad at getting rid of anything put in it! The flushing mechanism is fine. The cistern fills up after being flushed, and empties fine when being flushed, and the cistern empties to the level it should. But any loo roll inside the loo will just spin around in a clockwise direction without going down, and I need to throw a bucket of water down when I flush in order to get anything to disappear.

There are holes at the back of the bowl which I have cleaned out just in case (they were fine; I live in a soft water area), and a large slot at the front which is also clear. There is no obstruction to the wastepipe, and water goes down it fine. Everything else does too with a bucket of water behind it.

My thinking is to try to limit the egress of water in certain areas around the bowl by experimenting with some filler, in order that the clockwise motion stops, and pulling the chain makes stuff go down the hole. But I don't know what filler to use.

Or do I just have a naff loo? Or, please, does anybody have experience of sorting out something like this?

Thanks in anticipation.
 
king of pipes

king of pipes

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Its more likely to be a restriction in the drainage system somwhere preventing the toilet waste from draining as it should. Kop
 
R

Ric2013

Plumber
When at rest, how high is the water in the pan above the bottom of the ceramic bit at the back? Should be 50mm, not more. Just wondering whether a bad installer may have used an offset to allow the pan to connect to a waste pipe that is too high for the pan?

In terms of restrictions in the waste, note that this video
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NHy8ARu1cc
shows a pan the outlet of which has been reduced to about 2" in diameter (from the original 4") while it still seems to drain okayish: the water level can be seen to rise slightly during the flush if you look hard enough, but the contents of the pan are very reluctant to clear.

If soft water area, we can probably exclude limescale restriction in the outlet (the bit you can't see without removing the pan). Unless someone has been applying the 'if it's yellow let it mellow' approach?

It may just be a naff loo. Do you know the brand? If you want to play, something like "Sticks Like" is probably as good as any.

If the setup is particularly old, it is possible that the pan is supposed to work on a siphonic principle but that the wrong components have been used in repair - this would also prevent a good flush. That said, siphonic action flushing is really quite rare.

Photos or a video would be useful.
 
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rpm

rpm

Esteemed
Plumber
Chain, as in the cistern is very high up on the wall? Is it a new problem, how long have you lived there?
 
R

Ric2013

Plumber
Chain, as in the cistern is very high up on the wall? Is it a new problem, how long have you lived there?
Good spot. Won't be siphonic action if it's a chain pull high level cistern, then.
 
W

WC1

Gas Engineer
The spinning suggests the holes on 1 side of the pan are blocked or were mis-cast causing uneven flow into pan. You say youve cleaned them but have you tried - bend a coat hanger up and find the holes under the rim, a small mirror can help (give the pan a clean with bog brush and blech first). Flush again. Poke again. Any change?
 
snowhead

snowhead

Esteemed
Plumber
Have you ever seen it flush correctly, some pans are faulty from new?
If so, has it deteriorated slowly over the years or suddenly failed?

Is it an older W.C with larger outlet in the pan, if so does it still have the original higher volume cistern with it?
Older WC pans need the larger flush volume.

If the WC pan has been moved or is a more modern one, offset pan connectors on the outlet as well as flexi pipes can cause restrictions.

It's possible part of the thin plastic flush diaphragm may have got down into the spray area.
 
OP
T

Toiletdrip

Its more likely to be a restriction in the drainage system somwhere preventing the toilet waste from draining as it should. Kop
Thank you. That is a distinct possibility which I hadn't considered. The wastepipe of the loo is connected to the wastepipe of the one in the next room (the main bathroom), and goes through the wall. The one in the main bathroom flushes perfectly well, though, so perhaps it could be the pipe which connects them both. I can't view much of the pipe which connects them as it has had an enclosure built around it. Perhaps it might even have a slight upward slope.
Post automatically merged:

When at rest, how high is the water in the pan above the bottom of the ceramic bit at the back? Should be 50mm, not more. Just wondering whether a bad installer may have used an offset to allow the pan to connect to a waste pipe that is too high for the pan?

In terms of restrictions in the waste, note that this video
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NHy8ARu1cc
shows a pan the outlet of which has been reduced to about 2" in diameter (from the original 4") while it still seems to drain okayish: the water level can be seen to rise slightly during the flush if you look hard enough, but the contents of the pan are very reluctant to clear.

If soft water area, we can probably exclude limescale restriction in the outlet (the bit you can't see without removing the pan). Unless someone has been applying the 'if it's yellow let it mellow' approach?

It may just be a naff loo. Do you know the brand? If you want to play, something like "Sticks Like" is probably as good as any.

If the setup is particularly old, it is possible that the pan is supposed to work on a siphonic principle but that the wrong components have been used in repair - this would also prevent a good flush. That said, siphonic action flushing is really quite rare.

Photos or a video would be useful.
Thank you.

I suspect you are onto something with this. I'll measure the level later, and see if it appears that the pipe is too high. The video is interesting - my loo is even worse than that! "The yellow, mellow" approach rarely gets applied!

The water level rises during the flush, but goes down after a couple of seconds.
Post automatically merged:

Chain, as in the cistern is very high up on the wall? Is it a new problem, how long have you lived there?
Thanks. The cistern is attached directly to the back. Is it called close-coupled? The loo has been much the same for the last 23 years that I've lived here.
Post automatically merged:

The spinning suggests the holes on 1 side of the pan are blocked or were mis-cast causing uneven flow into pan. You say youve cleaned them but have you tried - bend a coat hanger up and find the holes under the rim, a small mirror can help (give the pan a clean with bog brush and blech first). Flush again. Poke again. Any change?
Thanks. That's what I wondered. They've been thoroughly cleaned with a metal skewer, and there was no obstruction. No difference afterwards. I'd originally wondered if they'd been mis-cast, but I'm coming round to the suggestion that it's a problem with the drainage.
Post automatically merged:

Have you ever seen it flush correctly, some pans are faulty from new?
If so, has it deteriorated slowly over the years or suddenly failed?

Is it an older W.C with larger outlet in the pan, if so does it still have the original higher volume cistern with it?
Older WC pans need the larger flush volume.

If the WC pan has been moved or is a more modern one, offset pan connectors on the outlet as well as flexi pipes can cause restrictions.

It's possible part of the thin plastic flush diaphragm may have got down into the spray area.
Thanks. It's never worked properly in the 23 years I've lived here. A good plumber (well, I thought he was good) installed a new flush system a few years ago, but was baffled about why stuff was reluctant to go down the pan.
Post automatically merged:

Thank you everybody for your helpful replies, which I appreciate. I think it possibly could be a drainage issue, which is not one I'd considered. I'll try to post a video this weekend so you can see what's happening.

Cheers! :)
 
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R

Ric2013

Plumber
It's close-coupled (i.e. cistern sits directly onto pan) and yet it has a chain to flush? Or was the 'chain' bit a figure of speech?
 
OP
T

Toiletdrip

It's close-coupled (i.e. cistern sits directly onto pan) and yet it has a chain to flush? Or was the 'chain' bit a figure of speech?
Sorry for any confusion caused. It was a figure of speech. On reflection, I should have said something like "flush the loo". Ooops!
 

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