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Discuss Timer is off but boiler is still operating!! in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

Jurgenjay

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Obviously somewhere is wrong here, but where is it please?

My timer is off one hour already, but the boiler is till operating, cylinder is operating, the central pump is still burning hot, the gas meter is still running numbers!!!
Anyone please help why this is?

Yesterday I post a thread that my central heating pump is burning hot, I was told this is normal. (I understand this is the case normally) But if my timer if off, then the central heating pump should not be still very hot as radiators are off already.
 

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ShaunCorbs

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Port valve stuck / the micro switch, how capable are you with electrics and do you have a multi meter?
 

ShaunCorbs

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If you don’t feel comfortable with it I would get a pro in
 

ShaunCorbs

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Should be too bad if it is the cost of a port valve and an first hours labour charge
 

Chuck

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should be too bad? Or you tried to say shouldn't be too bad?
I'm sure he meant "shouldn't".

A new Drayton zone valve will be £75 (give or take). It'll take roughly an hour to change, say £50, but most plumbers will either charge double for the first hour or add a 'call-out' charge. So, I'd expect around £200 all told.

But, depending on where you are in the country, it could be a bit less or considerably more (e.g. London). Also, this is a busy time of year so there may be a 'make it worth my while' supplement. ALWAYS ask how much work is actually going to cost before agreeing for it to start.
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
Port valve stuck / the micro switch, how capable are you with electrics and do you have a multi meter?
Did you mean the the motorised valve like attached photos are not working? The little black thing on top is the micro switch you meant? Should I try with checking Port valve stuck / the micro switch first?
 

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exedon2

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The black thing is manual lever
Micro switch inside cover.
Really is time for competent heating engineer
 

Jurgenjay

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78
The black thing is manual lever
Micro switch inside cover.
Really is time for competent heating engineer
Thank you! Yes, competent heating engineer!

This week Monday it happened first time that when timer was off already but boiler was still operating and gas meter was running...
by chance, we turned the water temperature next to the cylinder lower, then the boiler stopped.
Then Tuesday was normal---when timber off boiler stopped;
The engineer who installed this boiler system came on Wednesday had a brief check and just said all was good, nothing wrong....

But on Thursday night, when the timer was off about 1 hour, we found the boiler was still operating, the gas meter was running....
this time even if we turned the water temperature lower and then higher, neither could stop the boiler...
We had to turn off the electrical button for timer so that the boiler went off finally.

Yesterday Friday, we went out and still kept the electrical button off as we dare not let it on and the gas meter keep running. This morning we turned on that electrical button to let boiler work----that was out of timer time, but the boiler was not operating---seems follow the timber control.

All in all, it is like sometime when timber is off, the boiler will continue operating; sometime, the boiler will follow the timber---once timer off boiler off.

It must be something wrong, but where exactly?
If I call the gas engineer who install the system back, and when he is here and the boiler follows the timber, he would say"nothing wrong" again...
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
I'm sure he meant "shouldn't".

A new Drayton zone valve will be £75 (give or take). It'll take roughly an hour to change, say £50, but most plumbers will either charge double for the first hour or add a 'call-out' charge. So, I'd expect around £200 all told.

But, depending on where you are in the country, it could be a bit less or considerably more (e.g. London). Also, this is a busy time of year so there may be a 'make it worth my while' supplement. ALWAYS ask how much work is actually going to cost before agreeing for it to start.
Thank you for your reply!

The problem is:

This week Monday it happened first time that when timer was off already but boiler was still operating and gas meter was running...
by chance, we turned the water temperature next to the cylinder lower, then the boiler stopped.
Then Tuesday was normal---when timber off boiler stopped;
The engineer who installed this boiler system came on Wednesday had a brief check and just said all was good, nothing wrong....

But on Thursday night, when the timer was off about 1 hour, we found the boiler was still operating, the gas meter was running....
this time even if we turned the water temperature lower and then higher, neither could stop the boiler...
We had to turn off the electrical button for timer so that the boiler went off finally.

Yesterday Friday, we went out and still kept the electrical button off as we dare not let it on and the gas meter keep running. This morning we turned on that electrical button to let boiler work----that was out of timer time, but the boiler was not operating---seems follow the timber control.

All in all, it is like sometime when timber is off, the boiler will continue operating; sometime, the boiler will follow the timber---once timer off boiler off.

It must be something wrong, but where exactly?
If I call the gas engineer who install the system back, and when he is here and the boiler follows the timber, he would say"nothing wrong" again...
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
Port valve stuck / the micro switch, how capable are you with electrics and do you have a multi meter?
Hi,

Should I try to check first?

I give below details of what happened and happening now, this may give some clue?

This week Monday it happened first time that when timer was off already but boiler was still operating and gas meter was running...
by chance, we turned the water temperature next to the cylinder lower, then the boiler stopped.
Then Tuesday was normal---when timber off boiler stopped;
The engineer who installed this boiler system came on Wednesday had a brief check and just said all was good, nothing wrong....

But on Thursday night, when the timer was off about 1 hour, we found the boiler was still operating, the gas meter was running....
this time even if we turned the water temperature lower and then higher, neither could stop the boiler...
We had to turn off the electrical button for timer so that the boiler went off finally.

Yesterday Friday, we went out and still kept the electrical button off as we dare not let it on and the gas meter keep running. This morning we turned on that electrical button to let boiler work----that was out of timer time, but the boiler was not operating---seems follow the timber control.

All in all, it is like sometime when timber is off, the boiler will continue operating; sometime, the boiler will follow the timber---once timer off boiler off.

It must be something wrong, but where exactly?
If I call the gas engineer who install the system back, and when he is here and the boiler follows the timber, he would say"nothing wrong" again...
 

Ric2013

Plumber
Messages
3,483
If it's an intermittent fault, assuming you have the kit, take a video of the situation occurring you can show your gas engineer. Try to keep it short - no one wants to sit through a 15 minute video of a heating system not working properly and you should be able to show what you need to show in 2 minutes or less.
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
If it's an intermittent fault, assuming you have the kit, take a video of the situation occurring you can show your gas engineer. Try to keep it short - no one wants to sit through a 15 minute video of a heating system not working properly and you should be able to show what you need to show in 2 minutes or less.
Thanks for your suggestion!
I did shot videos of 1:timber off 2: boiler operating 3: gas meter running 4: central heating pump & pipes & cylinder operating to the gas engineer, each with 10 seconds.
He now admitted it should be something wrong----Only Wednesday he said nothing wrong....
I think he should have checked carefully rather than simply said nothing wrong on Wednesday.

But what could the problem be actually if the problem is intermittent? The motorised valve as attached?
 

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king of pipes

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Is this a new boiler ?? Has it ever worked properly ? What timer do you have we need a bit more info please . Kop
 

Jurgenjay

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78
Is this a new boiler ?? Has it ever worked properly ? What timer do you have we need a bit more info please . Kop
Yes, it is a new boiler. It has been worked properly but since Monday, it could not stop working even if programmer timer is off.
Then we by chance turned the water temperature lower, the boiler then stopped working;
But Thursday night, even if we turned the water temperature lower, the boiler could not stop working & the gas meter kept running, we were forced to turn off the electrical button of the programmer, then the boiler stopped working.
The timber is Drayton, same as the motorised valve .
 

king of pipes

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Ask your installer if the control link has been removed . ??
 

king of pipes

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Consult the installation manual im sorry we are not able to give advice on gas work opening up a boiler is regarded as work, its a new install so its your installers responsibility, out of interest which boiler and model do you have fitted . Regards kop
 

Ric2013

Plumber
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From what KOP is saying, it sounds like the control link is something inside the boiler itself. Presumably a device to allow the installer to test the boiler if the external controls are not complete at the time the boiler is installed?
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
Consult the installation manual im sorry we are not able to give advice on gas work opening up a boiler is regarded as work, its a new install so its your installers responsibility, out of interest which boiler and model do you have fitted . Regards kop
control link---if i ask the installer, he should know the quesiton, right?
the boiler is worcester-bosch.
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
From what KOP is saying, it sounds like the control link is something inside the boiler itself. Presumably a device to allow the installer to test the boiler if the external controls are not complete at the time the boiler is installed?
thank you!
should i mention or remind this "if the external controls are not complete at the time the boiler is installed" to the installer?
 

king of pipes

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It could possibly be something like this but please do not try removing anything yourself,👍 leave it to the installer to rectify . Regards kop
 

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Jurgenjay

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It could possibly be something like this but please do not try removing anything yourself,👍 leave it to the installer to rectify . Regards kop
thanks a lot!
that photo is control link? if i show this to the installer, he would understand what to to/test/recify?
certainly i won't touch anything😅
 

king of pipes

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I don't know which Worcester boiler you have but if I had to take a educated guess I would say you have slight wiring issue just mention it to the installer these can often be missed, but those motorised valves are also sometimes temperamental? It's a process of elimination I'm afraid. Regards kop
 

Ric2013

Plumber
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thank you!
should i mention or remind this "if the external controls are not complete at the time the boiler is installed" to the installer?
No, you'll probably just end up confusing the issue. I was just trying to explain what I thought a control link is (and ready to be shot down if my understanding was wrong).
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
I don't know which Worcester boiler you have but if I had to take a educated guess I would say you have slight wiring issue just mention it to the installer these can often be missed, but those motorised valves are also sometimes temperamental? It's a process of elimination I'm afraid. Regards kop
Thank you again for your reply!
I searched my quote record, the boiler is Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30Kw Ri SEDBUK.
I will mention " slight wiring issue" to the installer for his reference! Thanks for this reminder!

This issue (timer is off but boiler still operating) happened on Monday, but Tuesday and Wednesday were normal; But Thursday night happened again that boiler could not stopped working even if timber was off, then Saturday and today are normally so far.

So the problem is like intermittent, not all the time. That's why the installer came on Wednesday having a brief check and said nothing wrong... but Thursday night it happened again.

I agree with you very much that this is "a process of elimination", I hope when the installer comes again he would do the check process carefully, rather than quickly announce all good but later it happens again...
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
No, you'll probably just end up confusing the issue. I was just trying to explain what I thought a control link is (and ready to be shot down if my understanding was wrong).
All right! I understand it, won't mention that to the installer!
Thank you!
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
Port valve stuck / the micro switch, how capable are you with electrics and do you have a multi meter?
Hi Shaun, if it is Port valve stuck / the micro switch, how do you suggest I try with multi meter? I may test/check myself first if you instruct how? Many thanks!
 

ShaunCorbs

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Do you have 240v on the oranges if you do you need to separate them being careful as one will be live and then retest to see which one is always on eg 240v on orange then once you’ve found the one follow it back to the same brown one in the cable then test does that have 240v if you do you have another fault if you don’t the port valve micro switch is stuck
 

Jurgenjay

Messages
78
Do you have 240v on the oranges if you do you need to separate them being careful as one will be live and then retest to see which one is always on eg 240v on orange then once you’ve found the one follow it back to the same brown one in the cable then test does that have 240v if you do you have another fault if you don’t the port valve micro switch is stuck
Thank you very much Shaun!
All those are to test the motorised valve? I need to open it up and test inside?
 

ShaunCorbs

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Tests from the wiring centre
 

Jurgenjay

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Tests from the wiring centre
May I ask where the wiring centre is? Sorry for this further question!

The other reply mentioned "I would say you have slight wiring issue just mention it to the installer these can often be missed"
===This wiring issue means the wiring centre as you said?

Thank you again!
 

ShaunCorbs

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Follow the port valve wires eg the black ones should lead to a 12-14 way choc block strip or wiring centre
 

ShaunCorbs

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That’s a wiring diagram for your system
 

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akkeosflomdis

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Port valve stuck / the micro switch, how capable are you with electrics and do you have a multi meter?
 

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