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Discuss Tile trim around bath, should it be siliconed after fitting / tiling? in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

Plumb Line

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Hi all

We recently had a new bath installed. It is surrounded by walls on three sides, and it turned out that one of the walls wasn't square leaving a larger gap. So when it came to tiling, the tiler said it would be best to have a tile trim, the type you put into place before tiling and then tile onto. The bath was siliconed before the tile trim, then the trim was added and then the tiles...

The plumber said he would come back to add more silicone as a final step. But when he came back (he had other work to finish as well) he changed his mind and said the silicone wasn't needed. I asked whether water would get under the trim but he said it wouldn't be a problem.

Just wanted to check in with you guys whether you think he is right, or whether it needs sealing?

Many thanks and hope you've all had a good Christmas.

Cheers

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ShaunCorbs

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The tile trim should of been siliconed to the bath there’s normally a grove / place
 

Plumb Line

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The tile trim should of been siliconed to the bath there’s normally a grove / place

Do you mean after it was fitted?

I'll post some more photos below. The first two show where the tiles and trim meet the wall at the end of the bath. That shows better how the tiles sit on the trim. and the type of trim profile that was used, which may give a better clue as to what it is. Photos 3 and 4 show the silicone from beneath the bath - at the head end (applied before the tiler came), and photos 5 and 6 show the same at the tap end.

Cheers


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ShaunCorbs

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Before you fill the gap / void in the trip then put some on the bath and align the two and install the trim
 

Timmy D

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Looks like there is grout between the trim and tiles. Usually on a ledge/window sill this would be ok but against the bath, I’m not convinced. The bath will flex a little during use and crack this grout, as evident in photo 5. I would have used silicone here.

Also, the vertical corner joints should have been siliconed, not grouted to allow for movement. This grout will also over time crack.

I would have used these trim tiles instead of tile trim.
 

SimonG

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Them trims are gash. Bath onto a timber batten. Clear silicone between bath and wall. Tile spacer on top of bath to leave slight gap between bath an tile. Fill bath, dry gap, insert white silicone, finish and leave for 24 hours before pulling plug.
 

Plumb Line

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Happy new year folks. And thanks for the replies.

Not sure if due to inexperience or rushing the job or what, but it is starting to look like some shortcuts have been taken and the job isn't such a good one. Grrrr.


Looks like there is grout between the trim and tiles.

Yes. And we've only used the bath once so far and the I think the cracks are getting worse / there's more of them:

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Bath onto a timber batten.

Interesting you should say that as I was wondering about this the other day. The old bath had baton supports, but it was cast iron, much larger, and damn heavy! There are four small plastic wall brackets that came with the bath. He used three of those. And of course the legs/feet. But that's it for support. Maybe that's enough? Or maybe not??!! What do you guys think?

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Fill bath

They definitely didn't, not when initially siliconing bath to wall, and not when grouting either. In fact, the first time the bath was filled was when my partner got in in the other day (with rubber duck, etc). Perhaps that's part of the reason it is cracking already?


Also, the vertical corner joints should have been siliconed, not grouted to allow for movement. This grout will also over time crack.

Am I ok to add some silicone to the vertical joints now? Is siliconing over grout ok?

Huge thanks for all the help
 

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SimonG

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To be honest it's as rough as a badgers a$$. Tiling leaves a lot to be desired and doubt it was a tiler. The plastic trim isnt a tile trim it's a starter for grant westfield/mermaid wall panels. It's not that good for those either.

Hope they were the cheapest quote.

To fix, ideally pull bath and start again. Failing that get some timbers from floor to lip of bath on back wall and ends. Cut out that trim. Fill bath. Fill gap with clear silicone. Then get some 20mm upvc trim around the sides of bath and seal it with white silicone.
 

Timmy D

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Those baths also come with 2 lengths of batten sized to fit under the lip and sit low enough to be flush with the lip. Inexperienced please think they’re part of the packaging and throw them away. But they should be glued under the lip and allow the bath to sit on a wall batten and a frame on the open side for a panel.

The bath needs more support than just those clips.

Silicone over grout is never a good idea, the grout cracks and the silicone comes free. All grout should be removed and replaced with silicone.
 

Plumb Line

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Hi

I've been away at work and so haven't been able to do anything to the bath yet. I have had time to read a bit more about it though... The verdict I've reached through reading is the same as you guys - that siliconing onto the grout wouldn't be a good. Firstly it would be far better for the silicone to go INTO the gap that the grout is currently in. It would make for a much better longer lasting seal. Secondly, and maybe more importantly, the silicone is there to accommodate future movement whilst keeping things water tight. Having both grout and silicone bridging a gap isn't good from the movement point of view. It was the posts above that got me looking into it all further, so thanks for getting the ball rolling.

With that in mind I'm thinking I'll need to bite the bullet and remove the grout before applying the silicone (where the bottom tiles meet the trim, and the vertical sections where two walls meet). No idea how easy it is to remove grout and whether the tiles are likely to get damaged or even broken?

Or should I go further and follow @SimonG 's advice, or something along those lines? The problem with pulling the bath would be the re-plumbing required. But hey, if that's what's needed. At least then the silicone between bath and wall could be re-applied with water in the tub. Another option I was thinking... Remove the bottom row of tiles, and the plastic trim, and retiling just that row with a more suitable seal between tiles and bath. Depends partly on how compromised the large silicone seal between bath and wall is seeing as he didn't fill with water.

Obviously I'd rather avoid doing any of that, so if it's going too far then great. But if it needs that level of re-doing to be a decent watertight job, then I might as well face up to it now!


The bath needs more support than just those clips.

Regarding support, batons, etc - I got in touch with the bath manufacturer (Carron). I had been confused by the installation guide which showed wood within the lip of the bath. They have confirmed that there is wood encapsulated into the resin and that all is needed is the feet and wall brackets. He said baton can be used in addition if fitting the bath to a non-supporting wall. All the walls around our bath are solid, so I think we're ok on that front and according to Carron at least, no additional support is required.


Hope they were the cheapest quote.

There wasn't much in it between him and the other quote. We got a third, but he lived a distance away and so I think purposely priced himself out of the job. He was more than double the price of other two.

Thanks a million
 

Plumb Line

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88
Don't mean to be a pain, but if anyone has any further thoughts on any of this, that would be a massive help. I'm going to need to discuss all this with the plumber/tiler next week and the more I understand what has been done vs what should have been done, the better (as well as what needs to be done to put it right!). Cheers.
 

Plumb Line

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Well, perhaps I've blithered on too much to hold anyone's interest! But if anyone wants to hear an update - things aren't looking any better. Unfortunately, I have since found out the exact trim that was used:


It's an overtile trim. And it says "WARNING - avoid silicone contact with trim flex" So really, the decision to use it is going from bad to worse. Perhaps using at all was a bad decision. But if it had to be used, why he didn't use the undertile version I've no idea. Probably because it was a few quid more!

The other thing I've realised is that where the gap between wall and bath is widest, here:

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Should water get under the trim lip, I think it will actually end up in a spot that is lower than the bath edge (where I've marked red), and so won't work it's way out so well.

Grrrr!
 

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