Thames Water lead pipes - meter to stopcock liability?

[joekam]

Hi all. Thames Water lead pipes - meter to stopcock liability? I have had contradicting info. from TW & employees regarding the TW /consumer onus to repair or replace and various dates relating to policy changes. I was denied a free change or repair 5+ years ago. Also been told that near future TW policy will again provide free maintenance up to stopcock.

 

[Murdoch]

We come under Thames water and when our pipe from the meter to the stopcock split it was our problem

 

[Deleted member 120897]

If you’re talking about the boundary stopcock to inside your property then it’s your responsibility. If you renew the lead from the internal stopcock to the boundary the Thames Water May connect FOC under the lead replacement scheme.

 

[joekam]

If you’re talking about the boundary stopcock to inside your property then it’s your responsibility. If you renew the lead from the internal stopcock to the boundary the Thames Water May connect FOC under the lead replacement scheme.

Thanks but I am confused. TW meter & stopcock in pavement and lead pipe runs about 4m to my side-of-house door and there is access to my stopcock just inside the door. Why renew lead? Replace with alternative pipe - yes. Why "may" FOC? There is a large building demolish/build site entrance 5m across the road that required pile shutters and I wonder if seismic waves loosened the connection? Thanks for your answers.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Thanks but I am confused. TW meter & stopcock in pavement and lead pipe runs about 4m to my side-of-house door and there is access to my stopcock just inside the door. Why renew lead? Replace with alternative pipe - yes. Why "may" FOC? There is a large building demolish/build site entrance 5m across the road that required pile shutters and I wonder if seismic waves loosened the connection? Thanks for your answers.

You mentioned repair or replace, you wouldn’t renew lead, you’d replace the lead with mdpe. I don’t know if Thames water charge for connections, United utilities is my area, so you’d need to look if they do charge.

 

[snowhead]

Thames Water (and other Water Co's) are responsible for their water main, the stop tap and or meter fitted to their main and the pipe from that point to the property boundary.

The property owner is responsible for the pipe from the boundary to the internal property stop tap (and all pipework within the property).

If the pipe to the property needs replacing, it's for the property owner to arrange and pay for the work from inside the property out and up to the boundary.

The property owner will then have to pay Thames Water or other Water Co. to connect the new pipe to their pipe in the street / pavement. This needs arranging before any work is started.

Water Companies have in the past waived the charge for connection of a replacement pipe to their existing stop tap / meter where lead pipe was previously used, whether they do at any particular time varies on their policy at the time.
I don't beleive they ever have waved charges for replacement from their main across the property boundary and inside the property.

 

[joekam]

Thames Water (and other Water Co's) are responsible for their water main, the stop tap and or meter fitted to their main and the pipe from that point to the property boundary.

The property owner is responsible for the pipe from the boundary to the internal property stop tap (and all pipework within the property).

If the pipe to the property needs replacing, it's for the property owner to arrange and pay for the work from inside the property out and up to the boundary.

The property owner will then have to pay Thames Water or other Water Co. to connect the new pipe to their pipe in the street / pavement. This needs arranging before any work is started.

Water Companies have in the past waived the charge for connection of a replacement pipe to their existing stop tap / meter where lead pipe was previously used, whether they do at any particular time varies on their policy at the time.
I don't beleive they ever have waved charges for replacement from their main across the property boundary and inside the property.

Hi, SORRY! I replied promptly & was about to upload pics but had to log out quickly & seeing "save" warning saved but seemingly missed this one. I loathe to repeat at length so again thank you & recognise now the difference between FOC for connection, NOT replacement. Leak is from a ? to 15mm copper pipe solder joint fail. Now not sure what supply pipe is. If I could find my gas bottle & torch I would add solder and considering using self-fusing tape....? Old & recuperating so not at my best. pics fail to show the culprit joint as it is under the nut preventing it from backing off further. Difficult access prevented better focus & subject. Thanks

 

[joekam]

Do I need a 20mm-15mm reduction compression coupler?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

For what the above joint in the pictures ?

 

[joekam]

Yes. As described, solder joint leaking so I am considering cutting back to wider copper pipe. Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

15mm -15mm joint as it’s soft copper

 

[joekam]

lower copper pipe is wider (20mm?) & nut cannot drop down and over the lip/join.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That’s a 15mm soldered coupling need to go below that

 

[joekam]

Are you telling me that the lowest pipe is 15mm? Surely the solder join was to reduce it to fit tap?
Can anyone tell me what the whole joint consists of please? I am now not convinced that there is a lead pipe at all......?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If you remove the lower insulation / protection it should be 1/2 soft copper that you can solder or use a good quality compression fitting on

 

[joekam]

I have to go offline now.... Hang on, just seen your reply. Plz explain 1/2 copper? Thanks.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Old copper pipe than you could bend with your hand these days it’s 15mm soft copper back then 60s it was 1/2 soft draw copper

I think it’s time to call a plumber

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Looks a little like a tap connector, as per Shaun cut below this and use the compression nut and olive on new stopcock.

 

[joekam]

Nope, it's an olive & a good seal. The leaking solder join is the olive & nut pipe into copper pipe & just hidden by the nut. Further down is another solder join. I will strip sleeve back tomorrow. thanks all.

 

[joekam]

Old copper pipe than you could bend with your hand these days it’s 15mm soft copper back then 60s it was 1/2 soft draw copper

I think it’s time to call a plumber

Apparently still plenty of bent coppers into joints around today.

 

[Basher]

Nope, it's an olive & a good seal. The leaking solder join is the olive & nut pipe into copper pipe & just hidden by the nut. Further down is another solder join. I will strip sleeve back tomorrow. thanks all.

If you are referring to ChrisB's suggestion that it's a tap connector (which it also looks like to me), surely what we see in the photos is not an olive? If it is, it's squashed beyond repair. It seems to have a flat face but with a chunk out of it (ringed) - or that might be a chunk out of the sealing washer?
Admittedly the other end of the tap seems to be a compression fitting, so if the above end is compression, the state of that olive might account for the leak?


The tap connector theory would also explain why you think that's a 20mm pipe, which maybe the flared sleeve of the connector soldered over the 15mm pipe?

 

[joekam]

Yes, thanks Basher, - this morning I realised it's not an olive but edit option prevented my correcting my error!
Leak is spraying up from pipe into pipe solder joint under nut.
I am now not so keen on disturbing the stripping sleeve/cladding as it seems to be of a plaster type that can be picked away and fabric lower down. Hope to get better pics but -2C & I have chilblains. Many Thanks

 

[Chuck]

Be cautious about disturbing the 'plaster type' insulation in case it has asbestos in it.

 

[Basher]

So if the gap is a missing bit of fibre washer, and you can remove the remainder, you could clean it up, fit a replacement washer and problem solved!?

 

[joekam]

So if the gap is a missing bit of fibre washer, and you can remove the remainder, you could clean it up, fit a replacement washer and problem solved!?

View attachment 79847

As I said, that joint is fine, the leak is where the tap join was added (hidden by nut). I appreciate your correction. I accept that I can either add solder or cut pipe and and replace with compression or quick fit tap fitting. Many thanks for your kind help.

 

[joekam]

Be cautious about disturbing the 'plaster type' insulation in case it has asbestos in it.

Thank You. It was crumbly, not powdery.