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I'm an amateur with an interest in plumbing - installed 2 systems in the 60s and 70s and modified others for self and family until banned in 1991.
Current problem relates to daughter's system. She had an Ideal Logic 35kw combi installed under Government scheme some 8 or so years ago. At the same time she paid the installer separately to fix a small leak at the attachment of the lockshield to one of the radiators. Unfortunately the leak wasn't fixed and we ended up re-pressurising a couple of times a year. Last winter the re-pressurising became more frequent accelerating to a couple of times a week. I therefore isolated the leaky radiator and replenished the inhibitor without any benefit to the pressure loss. With the summer arising we switched the boiler to hot water only and now the replenishment is only needed every couple of weeks.
There doesn't appear to be any leak from the pipes / rads - many pipes are under 1st floor (solid downstairs) but with the degree of water loss I would have expected ceiling staining. I've checked the pressure release outlet outside - no discharge. The condensate trap drains internally so I cannot check any loss here.
So - 2 possibilities -1) leaky pipes/rads 2) leaking heat exchanger which I understand can be a fault with this boiler and perhaps the leak goes unnoticed via the condensate drain.

What to do next? I'm minded to suggest she goes for broke (literally) and changes the boiler but am concerned she will do this and continue the pressure loss.
Suggestions please as to how we can confirm it is the boiler.
 
A few things you can try.

Try topping the pressure up, and isolate the flow and return. If the pressure remains then it’s on the system side, if it drops it’s the boiler side.

Does the pressure rise at all?

Try taking the pressure up to 2.9 bar and check all rads, visible pipes, etc.
 
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I'm an amateur with an interest in plumbing - installed 2 systems in the 60s and 70s and modified others for self and family until banned in 1991.
Current problem relates to daughter's system. She had an Ideal Logic 35kw combi installed under Government scheme some 8 or so years ago. At the same time she paid the installer separately to fix a small leak at the attachment of the lockshield to one of the radiators. Unfortunately the leak wasn't fixed and we ended up re-pressurising a couple of times a year. Last winter the re-pressurising became more frequent accelerating to a couple of times a week. I therefore isolated the leaky radiator and replenished the inhibitor without any benefit to the pressure loss. With the summer arising we switched the boiler to hot water only and now the replenishment is only needed every couple of weeks.
There doesn't appear to be any leak from the pipes / rads - many pipes are under 1st floor (solid downstairs) but with the degree of water loss I would have expected ceiling staining. I've checked the pressure release outlet outside - no discharge. The condensate trap drains internally so I cannot check any loss here.
So - 2 possibilities -1) leaky pipes/rads 2) leaking heat exchanger which I understand can be a fault with this boiler and perhaps the leak goes unnoticed via the condensate drain.

What to do next? I'm minded to suggest she goes for broke (literally) and changes the boiler but am concerned she will do this and continue the pressure loss.
Suggestions please as to how we can confirm it is the boiler.
There is a solution look on Flowflex website to see if it suits you
1.5 bar is the safe operating pressure for a combi system
centralheatking
 
Thank you for your suggestions. I do not think the topupmate would help in a case such as ours where there is clearly a serious leak. I would also even in the case of very slow loss of pressure have concern that the topupmate would mask any developing more serious leak and would unbeknown to the owner cause steady dilution of inhibitor.
As to the isolating boiler and system idea, I may well follow that up but the difference in pressure loss with heating v hot water suggests that any leak is promoted by heating of the boiler. Hence as I would have to switch the boiler off with the system isolated it might take a long while for pressure loss to occur.
What I might try is to excavate the pipework for the condensate drain and check how much is discharged with the boiler working.
 
Thank you for the last response. I am trying to identify the problem before involving professionals - with all the new build locally it is difficult to catch the interest of any such and I was not impressed with the last who failed to correct the original system leak. If I can pin the problem to the boiler I will save Daughter the expense of investigation and perhaps unnecessary work to add to the cost of a new boiler.
 
How many times are we going to establish that the topupmate by flowflex is not a suitable fix for unnatural pressure loss :rolleyes:
Well why is Top Up Mate now selling at 9,000 units since
Jan 2019 ? To end users and Housing Associations whom
understand its application ....centralheatking it also employs
24 people whom otherwise would not be fully employed
and in the Uk ....thats the bit I am most proud of.
 
Well why is Top Up Mate now selling at 9,000 units since
Jan 2019 ? To end users and Housing Associations whom
understand its application ..centralheatking it also employs
24 people whom otherwise would not be fully employed
and in the Uk ..thats the bit I am most proud of.
Units sold is irrelevant, the top up mate has it's uses in certain circumstances, but to counteract the pressure loss on a system which clearly has a leak isn't one of them.
 
Units sold is irrelevant, the top up mate has it's uses in certain circumstances, but to counteract the pressure loss on a system which clearly has a leak isn't one of them.
Top Up Mate is essentially a temporary patch to get a system back and operational safely during times of stress. It also prevents householders over pressurising their systems and keeps homes and people warm until a solution is found. This is why its selling well to
housing associations, buy to let operators, and end users alike.
Thats exactly what I designed it for. centralheatking
 
Key word temporary

How many are getting left on / in and no ones finding the leak / problem
 
Key word temporary

How many are getting left on / in and no ones finding the leak / problem
Yorkshire Water and Thames have examined a few installations recently and they are happy, as are Wras. The instruction booklet is explicit about how to install Top Up Mate properly and its application. Anybody can purchase a New Jaguar and put bald tyres on it.That is not the manufacturers responsibility.
centralheatking. We have a number of new and exciting products
in our pipeline via our soon to be live UkPHIC ...Uk Plumbing and Heating Innovation Centre ...anybody can approach us with an idea
and we will help. Backed by Mc Alpine, Flowflex, & Teddington Systems already.
 
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Key word temporary

How many are getting left on / in and no ones finding the leak / problem
They are very common ion this neck of the woods and are installed as part of the filling loop, some are closed off (correctly) after the initial fill but of course others are left permanently on .( Auto Fill).
 
They are very common ion this neck of the woods and are installed as part of the filling loop, some are closed off (correctly) after the initial fill but of course others are left permanently on .( Auto Fill).
Hi John, I will be in Eire ..first week in September 2019 if you want a demo etc reply...we are looking for an agent in the free state..let me
know...pm me or reply to
[email protected]
 
Hi John, I will be in Eire ..first week in September 2019 if you want a demo etc reply...we are looking for an agent in the free state..let me
know...pm me or reply to
[email protected]
Thanks but I am so hyper about system water loss that I keep the make up to the ball clock on my vented system F&E tank isolated and only open it a few times/year to check for leaks!
 
Top Up Mate is essentially a temporary patch to get a system back and operational safely during times of stress. It also prevents householders over pressurising their systems and keeps homes and people warm until a solution is found. This is why its selling well to
housing associations, buy to let operators, and end users alike.
Thats exactly what I designed it for. centralheatking

You didn’t design it, your device has been done for years. So you stick a pressure reducing valve in a plastic box...... I’ll put you forward for the German design award.
[automerge]1565813307[/automerge]
Well why is Top Up Mate now selling at 9,000 units since
Jan 2019 ? To end users and Housing Associations

I’ll tell you how it’ll end up panning out, they’ll end up being so many private claims against housing associations/ landlords/ home owners who use ‘topupmates’ due to water damage from long term leaks, that they’ll get removed. But it’s okay because you’ve explicitly stated that they’re for temporary use;)
 
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You didn’t design it, your device has been done for years. So you stick a pressure reducing valve in a plastic box.... I’ll put you forward for the German design award.
So why have I a European Patent granted to me for 20 years ? There is way more than a prv in the box, check out the patent
which includes Germany by the way already done thanks
centralheatking
 
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So why have I a European Patent granted to me for 20 years ? There is way more than a prv in the box, check out the patent
which includes Germany by the way already done thanks
centralheatking
Dunno, probably because this old hack done years ago wasn’t an idea in a box, just something bodging cowboy did. You’ve just put forward a bodge in a box and have a name to it.
 
Mods, I didn't realise CHK was a forum sponsor or can we all freely advertise our wares so openly? Well ok then, maybe Yorky Dave was allowed with his magic tap dancing shoes.
 
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Just thought I would post an outcome.
I was worried about running the boiler with the system valves closed so just disconnected condensate drain, connected it to a receptacle and left the boiler pressurised to 2.5 atmospheres. Over 6 hours there was a tiny pressure drop and a small drain of water. Repeated the process and this time no drop, no leak. I still felt it was likely the HE was leaking, probably most noticeable when hot, so from advice here thought I would give Ideal a try.
I don't quite understand the system, but with 300 quid over 6 months through domestic and general they would repair any fault on the boiler and guarantee it for the 6 months.
So decided to go with this. Engineer sent next day, stripped boiler, to my relief showed me the knackered HE and replaced it, with a general clean. Apparently the 300 quid is the cost of repair whatever it is, minor or major, so I presume d&g hope we will forget to cancel at 6 months and carry on with some exorbitant contract, note to diary.
In all I am very happy to have the 300 quid fix on an 8 year old boiler which in other respects has functioned well.

Lastly, sorry to have stimulated some flaming over the leak replenishment system: from an amateur viewpoint I would only like one fitted if it was able to give some indication of excessive replenishment or there could be masking of a fault and possible dilution of inhibitor
 
Glad you had it fixed and thanks for the update
 
As above, glad you have it fixed, if the expansion vessel pre charge and filling pressures have been done properly by the installer then you will have indication of any leakage.
 

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