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Discuss System pressure loss in the Central Heating Forum area at PlumbersForums.net

fiddler3

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I'm an amateur with an interest in plumbing - installed 2 systems in the 60s and 70s and modified others for self and family until banned in 1991.
Current problem relates to daughter's system. She had an Ideal Logic 35kw combi installed under Government scheme some 8 or so years ago. At the same time she paid the installer separately to fix a small leak at the attachment of the lockshield to one of the radiators. Unfortunately the leak wasn't fixed and we ended up re-pressurising a couple of times a year. Last winter the re-pressurising became more frequent accelerating to a couple of times a week. I therefore isolated the leaky radiator and replenished the inhibitor without any benefit to the pressure loss. With the summer arising we switched the boiler to hot water only and now the replenishment is only needed every couple of weeks.
There doesn't appear to be any leak from the pipes / rads - many pipes are under 1st floor (solid downstairs) but with the degree of water loss I would have expected ceiling staining. I've checked the pressure release outlet outside - no discharge. The condensate trap drains internally so I cannot check any loss here.
So - 2 possibilities -1) leaky pipes/rads 2) leaking heat exchanger which I understand can be a fault with this boiler and perhaps the leak goes unnoticed via the condensate drain.

What to do next? I'm minded to suggest she goes for broke (literally) and changes the boiler but am concerned she will do this and continue the pressure loss.
Suggestions please as to how we can confirm it is the boiler.
 

CBW1982

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A few things you can try.

Try topping the pressure up, and isolate the flow and return. If the pressure remains then it’s on the system side, if it drops it’s the boiler side.

Does the pressure rise at all?

Try taking the pressure up to 2.9 bar and check all rads, visible pipes, etc.
 
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centralheatking

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I'm an amateur with an interest in plumbing - installed 2 systems in the 60s and 70s and modified others for self and family until banned in 1991.
Current problem relates to daughter's system. She had an Ideal Logic 35kw combi installed under Government scheme some 8 or so years ago. At the same time she paid the installer separately to fix a small leak at the attachment of the lockshield to one of the radiators. Unfortunately the leak wasn't fixed and we ended up re-pressurising a couple of times a year. Last winter the re-pressurising became more frequent accelerating to a couple of times a week. I therefore isolated the leaky radiator and replenished the inhibitor without any benefit to the pressure loss. With the summer arising we switched the boiler to hot water only and now the replenishment is only needed every couple of weeks.
There doesn't appear to be any leak from the pipes / rads - many pipes are under 1st floor (solid downstairs) but with the degree of water loss I would have expected ceiling staining. I've checked the pressure release outlet outside - no discharge. The condensate trap drains internally so I cannot check any loss here.
So - 2 possibilities -1) leaky pipes/rads 2) leaking heat exchanger which I understand can be a fault with this boiler and perhaps the leak goes unnoticed via the condensate drain.

What to do next? I'm minded to suggest she goes for broke (literally) and changes the boiler but am concerned she will do this and continue the pressure loss.
Suggestions please as to how we can confirm it is the boiler.
There is a solution look on Flowflex website to see if it suits you
1.5 bar is the safe operating pressure for a combi system
centralheatking
 
OP
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fiddler3

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Thank you for your suggestions. I do not think the topupmate would help in a case such as ours where there is clearly a serious leak. I would also even in the case of very slow loss of pressure have concern that the topupmate would mask any developing more serious leak and would unbeknown to the owner cause steady dilution of inhibitor.
As to the isolating boiler and system idea, I may well follow that up but the difference in pressure loss with heating v hot water suggests that any leak is promoted by heating of the boiler. Hence as I would have to switch the boiler off with the system isolated it might take a long while for pressure loss to occur.
What I might try is to excavate the pipework for the condensate drain and check how much is discharged with the boiler working.
 
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fiddler3

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Thank you for the last response. I am trying to identify the problem before involving professionals - with all the new build locally it is difficult to catch the interest of any such and I was not impressed with the last who failed to correct the original system leak. If I can pin the problem to the boiler I will save Daughter the expense of investigation and perhaps unnecessary work to add to the cost of a new boiler.
 

centralheatking

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How many times are we going to establish that the topupmate by flowflex is not a suitable fix for unnatural pressure loss :rolleyes:
Well why is Top Up Mate now selling at 9,000 units since
Jan 2019 ? To end users and Housing Associations whom
understand its application ..centralheatking it also employs
24 people whom otherwise would not be fully employed
and in the Uk ..thats the bit I am most proud of.
 

Craig Watson

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Well why is Top Up Mate now selling at 9,000 units since
Jan 2019 ? To end users and Housing Associations whom
understand its application ..centralheatking it also employs
24 people whom otherwise would not be fully employed
and in the Uk ..thats the bit I am most proud of.
Units sold is irrelevant, the top up mate has it's uses in certain circumstances, but to counteract the pressure loss on a system which clearly has a leak isn't one of them.
 

centralheatking

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Units sold is irrelevant, the top up mate has it's uses in certain circumstances, but to counteract the pressure loss on a system which clearly has a leak isn't one of them.
Top Up Mate is essentially a temporary patch to get a system back and operational safely during times of stress. It also prevents householders over pressurising their systems and keeps homes and people warm until a solution is found. This is why its selling well to
housing associations, buy to let operators, and end users alike.
Thats exactly what I designed it for. centralheatking
 

ShaunCorbs

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Key word temporary

How many are getting left on / in and no ones finding the leak / problem
 

centralheatking

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Key word temporary

How many are getting left on / in and no ones finding the leak / problem
Yorkshire Water and Thames have examined a few installations recently and they are happy, as are Wras. The instruction booklet is explicit about how to install Top Up Mate properly and its application. Anybody can purchase a New Jaguar and put bald tyres on it.That is not the manufacturers responsibility.
centralheatking. We have a number of new and exciting products
in our pipeline via our soon to be live UkPHIC ...Uk Plumbing and Heating Innovation Centre ...anybody can approach us with an idea
and we will help. Backed by Mc Alpine, Flowflex, & Teddington Systems already.
 
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John.g

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Key word temporary

How many are getting left on / in and no ones finding the leak / problem
They are very common ion this neck of the woods and are installed as part of the filling loop, some are closed off (correctly) after the initial fill but of course others are left permanently on .( Auto Fill).
 

centralheatking

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They are very common ion this neck of the woods and are installed as part of the filling loop, some are closed off (correctly) after the initial fill but of course others are left permanently on .( Auto Fill).
Hi John, I will be in Eire ..first week in September 2019 if you want a demo etc reply...we are looking for an agent in the free state..let me
know...pm me or reply to
[email protected]
 

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