System Boiler advice please..

[MarkHod]

Our Alpha CD30 system boiler is approximately 12 years old and constantly giving us problems. I have since learnt that its not a great boiler – recommended by our then plumber.

4 bed house with two bathrooms, large kitchen/breakfast room, large sitting room, family room, study and utility - we have 17 radiators and 2 large linked hot water cylinders in the loft. Boiler will reside in the utility.

British Gas have quoted for a Worcester 30i 30KW system boiler.

First question, is 30kw enough, or should I go to 35kw for that extra capacity, in case I need it? Especially as most modern boilers modulate. I guess it depends on how you measure required KW – BG seem to think 30kw is sufficient, yet Worcester recommend 1.5kw per radiator and 3KW per tank, giving 31.5kw. So who is right?. The 8000 Life 35kw has 1:10 burner modulation so, in my simple world, the boiler should just turn the flame up or down accordingly depending on the requirements.

Second question, if 30kw is sufficient, which boiler would you chose and why out of Worcester 30i 30kw and 8000 Life 30kw? Space and pipework is not an issue for all boilers mentioned, including the 8000 35kw.

Third question – which is the better, as in more efficient and most importantly reliable, heat exchanger – WB5 or WB7?

Final question, would you recommend an alternative brand such as Vaillant, Viessmann or…? If so, why?

I am great believer in buying the best you can afford – buy cheap, buy twice. Although I don’t like wasting money!

All help/guidance is greatly appreciated!

Mark

 

[ShaunCorbs]

First I would do a heat loss of your property to see what the exact demand is then add allowance for cylinders etc or stagger the times depending on need / system

A crude way to give an approximate is if the rads heat the rooms decently is to work out the outputs of the rads etc

 

[MarkHod]

First I would do a heat loss of your property to see what the exact demand is then add allowance for cylinders etc or stagger the times depending on need / system

A crude way to give an approximate is if the rads heat the rooms decently is to work out the outputs of the rads etc

I have no idea how to do that.

House was built in mid 60's - solid interior walls, double glazing, well insulated loft, but no cavity wall insulation. A reasonably well insulated house.

Not sure if that helps....?

 

[king of pipes]

There are some very good installers on here and they will all have their prefered boiler they like to fit Worcester Bosch would not be my first choice if I am honest but saying that any of the top 10 boiler manufacturers have boilers that would do the job its really hard to say without a site survey the best system to suit your property and lifestyle, the most important thing is choose a installer who will fit a quality product and offer a good maintenance package all the top brands now offer long warranties but as a consequence the boiler needs to be serviced and checked every 12months. Best of luck kop

 

[centralheatking]

There are some very good installers on here and they will all have their prefered boiler they like to fit Worcester Bosch would not be my first choice if I am honest but saying that any of the top 10 boiler manufacturers have boilers that would do the job its really hard to say without a site survey the best system to suit your property and lifestyle, the most important thing is choose a installer who will fit a quality product and offer a good maintenance package all the top brands now offer long warranties but as a consequence the boiler needs to be serviced and checked every 12months. Best of luck kop

I cannot improve on KOP advice it is very astute and based on experience. Have a look at ATAG but follow the KOP criteria
....centralheatking

 

[gmartine]

BG obviously have an agreement with WB as that's all they fit as well as charge at least 30% more, that's why they can offer £450 in exchange for your old boiler so get one or two quotes from a good local independent engineer.

As far as brand preference goes I'd pick Vaillant and Viessmann over WB simply because they don't have a WB5 or WB7 which are both aluminium. The WB 8000 lifestyle from what I've read is a better looking cdi with better controls, I wouldn't be seduced by that.

 

[Chuck]

I have no idea how to do that.

Don't worry, it's a job for the installer not the homeowner.

If the Apha CD30 was able to keep you comfortable for the last 12 years there's no need for the new boiler to be any bigger.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

I'd be looking at Vaillant, probably an EcoTec Plus 630. As others have said if 30kws has worked for you in the past then stick with that. Oversizing a boiler can be as bad as undersizing it.

I wouldn't have Worcester, but if I had to pick out of them two probably the Life 8000 it's got a better burner IMO.

 

[Stu-B]

In your position I’d be looking at getting cavity wall insulation, there’s bound to be a scheme doing it for free.
as others here have said, if 30kw has done the job for the last 12 years then why get anything different,

 

[Jones82]

Run a mile from Bg they charge the earth and are over rated, get a couple of quotes from local heating engineers, or ideally a recommendation from a friend or family member.

 

[MarkHod]

Thank you for the replies.

To be fair to BG they are little more expensive than a local plumber, however when you take into account the free BG Homecare for 12 months and then £14 per month for the next 4 years, they work out cheaper. Also, they offer interest free over 2 years - money is better off in my account than theirs.

They are pushing WB - However I am going to ask them to quote on Vaillant EcoTec Plus 30kw and see what they come back with.

 

[gmartine]

I can see how that can be tempting, does that include the boiler service for the next 4 yrs?

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Just be careful with the boiler warranties and whether you have to continue the homecare plan to be covered.

If BG fit a Vaillant you'll get a 5 year warranty I believe, if an advance installer fits it you'll get a 7 with the option to upgrade to 10.

Not sure on the Worcester, but someone we do a bit of work for had BG do hers and instead of the 7 year warranty she'd would of got with a Worcester installer she ended up with 1 year instead - all because it was BG who fitted it and she didn't take homecare.

 

[MarkHod]

I have had heating BG Homecare for many years, and probably will continue, therefore it gets serviced every year.

I thought if BG fitted you got 7 year warranty... need to clarify that.

If I have Homecare then the boiler is covered anyway, and BG guarrantee the boiler for up to 10 years - i.e. will replace if can't be repaired within that 10 year period.

I would happily give the business to an independant plumber if they could match....? How does it work from an independant perspective, do they take insurance out, so they are not out of pocket? If not, I can almost see a slight conflict of interest.... cost for them to repair something and dismissing it....? For example BG came to do a routine annual service a few years ago, and told me my flue needed replacing as it no longer met current standards - no charge to me.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

I have had heating BG Homecare for many years, and probably will continue, therefore it gets serviced every year.

I thought if BG fitted you got 7 year warranty... need to clarify that.

If I have Homecare then the boiler is covered anyway, and BG guarrantee the boiler for up to 10 years - i.e. will replace if can't be repaired within that 10 year period.

I would happily give the business to an independant plumber if they could match..? How does it work from an independant perspective, do they take insurance out, so they are not out of pocket? If not, I can almost see a slight conflict of interest.. cost for them to repair something and dismissing it..? For example BG came to do a routine annual service a few years ago, and told me my flue needed replacing as it no longer met current standards - no charge to me.

The 7 years might be with BG providing you continue the homecare plan - just make sure. As I said a few people have been caught out by that I believe.

The warranty is with the boiler manufacture, so only covers the boiler for parts and labour only to be repaired by the manufactures engineer. Nothing else on the system will be covered, unlike your homecare plan - dependant on your level of cover.

The boiler would also have to be serviced annually to keep the manufactures warranty.

However the homecare plans can be costly - which i'm sure you're aware of, so it depends on what you want covered and how much you want to pay going forward.