Soil Pipe Angle Options - Advice & Help required

[Pgeddon]

Hi All,

Having the layout on the ground floor reworked, the plans to do so included moving the internal vertical soil pipe on the ground floor too.

This pipe picks up the bathroom and en-suite on the 1st floor, and bathroom on the top attic floor too. So quite a bit goes through it, though on our re-worked ground floor layout its ended up being in a very awkward place, causing a problem for our design, so it has to move.

The image below is the current soil pipe layout.



It's a problem for the 'new bathroom, its far too central in that room, so we'd planned to push it to the right (looking at the house from the rear)... ideally lining it up with the vertical stack that runs above it from the 1st floor to the top floor, and in the process, eliminating the horizontal kink between the 2 vertical sections altogether, as on the image below.




BUT, unfortunately when we removed the downstairs ceiling in the 'new bathroom' room, as shown on the picture above, we found an RSJ right beneath where the soil pipe begins to kink sideways. Scuppering our original plan to line it all up vertically, argh!

I'm looking at alternative options of how I can have this pipe reworked. Though im no plumber so wanted to get a read on how drastic/silly i'm being with the alternate options below (in an ideal world it would end up being as close to the 'original plan' idea as possible)

Do any of these look acceptable/appropriate?





Or if any of you have a better suggestion, i'd love to hear it. As I said, im not sure how the above will fare with blockages etc, i'm not experienced with this sort of stuff.


Here's a short video with commentary of inside the room if that helps at all. - Vimeo - https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/636823080

 

[king of pipes]

Hi All,

Having the layout on the ground floor reworked, the plans to do so included moving the internal vertical soil pipe on the ground floor too.

This pipe picks up the bathroom and en-suite on the 1st floor, and bathroom on the top attic floor too. So quite a bit goes through it, though on our re-worked ground floor layout its ended up being in a very awkward place, causing a problem for our design, so it has to move.

The image below is the current soil pipe layout.

View attachment 64884

It's a problem for the 'new bathroom, its far too central in that room, so we'd planned to push it to the right (looking at the house from the rear)... ideally lining it up with the vertical stack that runs above it from the 1st floor to the top floor, and in the process, eliminating the horizontal kink between the 2 vertical sections altogether, as on the image below.

View attachment 64894


BUT, unfortunately when we removed the downstairs ceiling in the 'new bathroom' room, as shown on the picture above, we found an RSJ right beneath where the soil pipe begins to kink sideways. Scuppering our original plan to line it all up vertically, argh!

I'm looking at alternative options of how I can have this pipe reworked. Though im no plumber so wanted to get a read on how drastic/silly i'm being with the alternate options below (in an ideal world it would end up being as close to the 'original plan' idea as possible)

Do any of these look acceptable/appropriate?


View attachment 64885View attachment 64886View attachment 64887View attachment 64888


Or if any of you have a better suggestion, i'd love to hear it. As I said, im not sure how the above will fare with blockages etc, i'm not experienced with this sort of stuff.


Here's a short video with commentary of inside the room if that helps at all. - Vimeo - https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/636823080

The only viable option is the last one where the soil pipe is moved and then kicks down with 45 ° fittings from above the steel I wouldn't consider any of the other options, do you have an architect , or consultant on the project ? It's always wise to cover yourself for future issues should they arise, building control will need to be satisfied they can also advise you they can be your friend but also your enemy so please take advice and have documentation in place so when it comes to signing off there is not a problem, definitely future proof against blockages and take the least restrictive route in what will be a beautiful home. Regards Kop

 

[Pgeddon]

The only viable option is the last one where the soil pipe is moved and then kicks down with 45 ° fittings from above the steel I wouldn't consider any of the other options, do you have an architect , or consultant on the project ? It's always wise to cover yourself for future issues should they arise, building control will need to be satisfied they can also advise you they can be your friend but also your enemy so please take advice and have documentation in place so when it comes to signing off there is not a problem, definitely future proof against blockages and take the least restrictive route in what will be a beautiful home. Regards Kop

thanks - Good to know atleast one of them is an acceptable alternative. I haven't shown building control yet but they will want to see as they knew we were moving the bathroom as per the architect drawings we submitted to them.

I do have a builder/plumber who're doing most of the work though they didn't necessarily share my concern with the other alternate options. They said alternate option #1 (the one that goes back on itself at 90degree turns) is definitely not O.K, but the others should be fine. Though I felt it sensible to get more opinions on that here, as it didnt seem right to my limited understanding of when blockages occur etc.

Is there any other way of doing it that jumped out to you looking at the images?

 

[king of pipes]

Builder/ Plumber is what jumps out Builders build stuff don't let em loose on ya internal plumbing it's not like external drainage as I said take the less restrictive route that is what I told you in the previous post.

 

[Pgeddon]

thanks - Good to know atleast one of them is an acceptable alternative. I haven't shown building control yet but they will want to see as they knew we were moving the bathroom as per the architect drawings we submitted to them.

I do have a builder/plumber who're doing most of the work though they didn't necessarily share my concern with the other alternate options. They said alternate option #1 (the one that goes back on itself at 90degree turns) is definitely not O.K, but the others should be fine. Though I felt it sensible to get more opinions on that here, as it didnt seem right to my limited understanding of when blockages occur etc.

Is there any other way of doing it that jumped out to you looking at the images?

Less restrictive route definitely makes sense. It's just a shame as I didnt want the soil pipe over on that side of the room as the room next to it will be a library! Last thing you want to hear is someone flushing a sh*t while you're midway through a great book haha.

Do you think the question mark shape esque one, in option #3 too restrictive then? I thought with it falling to a 45 that would be fine?

 

[oz-plumber]

option 3 & 4 are basically the same to me
1 x 90 bend
2 x 45 bends.

Just make sure the top of the stack is vented to atmosphere.
Don't use an AAV.

 

[Chuck]

I don't like the look of any of those much. I agree that #4 is the least worst of the bunch but do give careful thought to positions rodding eye(s) and access panel(s) in case there is ever a blockage.

Personally, I'd rather have a downpipe running vertically up the outside of the back of a house than have it zigging internally. Two weeks and you'll not notice it any more, you'll have more space and no flushing noises inside the house and no trouble stored up for the future. IME, people very rarely sit sit outside with their back to the garden staring at the house.

 

[Pgeddon]

I don't like the look of any of those much. I agree that #4 is the least worst of the bunch but do give careful thought to positions rodding eye(s) and access panel(s) in case there is ever a blockage.

Personally, I'd rather have a downpipe running vertically up the outside of the back of a house than have it zigging internally. Two weeks and you'll not notice it any more, you'll have more space and no flushing noises inside the house and no trouble stored up for the future. IME, people very rarely sit sit outside with their back to the garden staring at the house.

Agree -I'd have just gone ahead with an external if we werent having a large extension next year.

Rear elevation proposal below with crude red line showing the soil stack current layout. If we went external with that extension being appended on to the rear of the property, I really can't see how we'd make it work and still get the fall without running it across all the roof of the extension.

,

 

[Pgeddon]

option 3 & 4 are basically the same to me
1 x 90 bend
2 x 45 bends.

Just make sure the top of the stack is vented to atmosphere.
Don't use an AAV.

It is vented to atmosphere, it has one of those metal grill vent types on top. Though as shown in the image below, it's a long way away from the vertical stack. Though it is something I wanted to get moved in future, why theyve run it all the way to the side of the house to vent is a total mystery to me. But at some poine in the future i'll move the vent to pop out the top of the top floor roof (green X on the image below)

 

[king of pipes]

Less restrictive route definitely makes sense. It's just a shame as I didnt want the soil pipe over on that side of the room as the room next to it will be a library! Last thing you want to hear is someone flushing a sh*t while you're midway through a great book haha.

Do you think the question mark shape esque one, in option #3 too restrictive then? I thought with it falling to a 45 that would be fine?

option 3 & 4 are basically the same to me
1 x 90 bend
2 x 45 bends.

Just make sure the top of the stack is vented to atmosphere.
Don't use an AAV.

2 - 90° bends or branch with access ? + 2 - 45° elbows I can see

Less restrictive route definitely makes sense. It's just a shame as I didnt want the soil pipe over on that side of the room as the room next to it will be a library! Last thing you want to hear is someone flushing a sh*t while you're midway through a great book haha.

Do you think the question mark shape esque one, in option #3 too restrictive then? I thought with it falling to a 45 that would be fine?

Wow what different worlds we live in most people don't have a choice it's like symphonic orchestra when the wife gets in there In our house, it really isn't hard to over come with some insulation and sound block Plaster board and I'm sure you'll have the silence and solitude you hope for.

 

[Pgeddon]

ha-ha-ha, my wife is generally incredibly loud, through all holes....wait.... no, that's fair.

anyway...we had building control out to triple check the legitimacy of the options. With external being a no-go, they said option 3 or 4 would be not ideal, but passable, the rest would not be.

So we went with #3, to keep the 'acoustics' shall we say....away from what really should be the quietest room in the house!.

 

[Pgeddon]

it really isn't hard to over come with some insulation and sound block Plaster board and I'm sure you'll have the silence and solitude you hope for.

Yeah, for an extra measure, I purchased some of the rubber sm20 panels too. They're great and only 20mm deep. So the wall 'sandwich' now is

Soundbloc 12.5mm -> SM20 -> Soundbloc 12.5mm -> Studs full of RW5 rockwool 150mm -> Moisture Resistant 12.5mm

207mm thick or so in total! and on the library side it will obviously have floor to ceiling bookcases and books too! I hope its enough, she is very loud.

 

[king of pipes]

ha-ha-ha, my wife is generally incredibly loud, through all holes....wait.... no, that's fair.

anyway...we had building control out to triple check the legitimacy of the options. With external being a no-go, they said option 3 or 4 would be not ideal, but passable, the rest would not be.

So we went with #3, to keep the 'acoustics' shall we say....away from what really should be the quietest room in the house!.

Definitely a builders job he's used a mix of under ground drainage and above ground Just make sure there's no solvent weld joints onto any of the brown fittings you cannot glue those.

 

[Pgeddon]

Definitely a builders job he's used a mix of under ground drainage and above ground Just make sure there's no solvent weld joints onto any of the brown fittings you cannot glue those.

What's the difference in characteristics for above vs under ground?

 

[Timmy D]

What's the difference in characteristics for above vs under ground?

Typically underground is pp (polypropylene). Polypipe do a pvc underground range (which can be solvent welded).
Above ground is pvc.

pp is stronger and more flexible than pvc.
pp can not be solvent welded, push fit is used. This also allows for movement in the earth without damaging the pipe.
pp is environmentally friendlier than pvc. pvc contains Chlorine.

 

[Pgeddon]

I do recall the plumber using solvent. If he has used it on the pp bits what will happen? Do I need to get that rectified now ahead of all the tiling etc?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I do recall the plumber using solvent. If he has used it on the pp bits what will happen? Do I need to get that rectified now ahead of all the tiling etc?

Solvent doesn’t stick to orange so yes

 

[king of pipes]

I wouldn't chance it get it changed.

 

[Pgeddon]

I asked them about it. They said they only used solvent to connect the white to white. Didn't use solvent on any of the pp pieces.

Also said below ground is fine to use above? But above ground not ok to use below.

Image below for ref.

ha-ha-ha, my wife is generally incredibly loud, through all holes....wait.... no, that's fair.

anyway...we had building control out to triple check the legitimacy of the options. With external being a no-go, they said option 3 or 4 would be not ideal, but passable, the rest would not be.

So we went with #3, to keep the 'acoustics' shall we say....away from what really should be the quietest room in the house!.

View attachment 64961