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So you just bought or moved into the house, switched on the heating, and only some radiators are completely hot, while others are lukewarm with coldspots in the middle, and the gas/oil bill was massive while most rooms are struggling to reach even 18C and pose a heath risk? The previous owners/tennants told you that this house will need a new CH system and been quoted 5K+ GBP for the Job?-> First try flushing EVERYTHING thorogly using the following protocol:
(Start NO later than Friday evening, if planning to do it on the weekend). Also don't do it if there is -10 - -20 degrees forecast for the weekend :yes:

1. Remove the sludge from the overhead tank (on the open system).

Get yourself a strong mate, and:

2. Close both rad feed taps, and Take off EACH Radiator, and do the following with it:
a. Take the rad outside. Put it on the boards or grass.
b. connect it to the source with GOOD FLOW RATE (like 3/4 - 1 inch garden hose or 1-4KW (3phase motor if available :yes:) 6bar+ pump linked to a but/pool/clean pond (without fish/life)/well).
c. turn the rad upside down, fill it with water, wait untill the water runs clear, than invert it and wait for the clear, than again invert and bang on it with the rubber mallet through the wooden board (to protect the paint) or use SDS MAX mallet attachment :yes:, untill the water is clear.
d. turn it in the normal and bang it again untll clear.
e. Stop water, drain it (so there is air inside), and connect it again in the NORMAL posiotion so it is full of air, turn the water on a full blast, so it has to flow through the bottom bit. Bang-Bang until clear.
f. Go to c-e (repeat 2-3 times if needed, can also change the flow direction to the oposite). Agitating the half-full rad also may help.
g. If wanted wash the exterior finish with pressure washer or hose. Don't forget to wash out the dust from the inside of it too.
h. Clean that bleed valve, if needed...

3. For each radiator pipe connection do the following:
a. Attach an adapter with a bit of hose and open the tap fully into a 20L bucket, until water runs clear. You can also use 6 pints+ organic milk bottle(s) if you don't have a hose with the adapter.
b. Open the top up valve fully for the closed system.
c. Open the tap fully untill water runs clear or the container is full.
d. Repeat c unill clear, can also bang on the pipe gently.
e. If there is no flow - try going into the fully open valve with steel wire or rope (or tiniest drain cleaner :). Remove the valve to gain better access to the pipe.
Hold the hose/thumb/cloth/bucket ready if the fountain of happy black flow emerges suddenly :yes: If not - try rigging up the pressure washer... (but open the neighboring radiator flow or return, so your's system doesn't go bust).

4. If you have underfloor heating and it had sludged up - connect one end to the 2.b (hose), and the another end into the drain or garden.
b. Flow until clear.
c. Try again in the opposite direction.

5. Do the upgrades (optional): Now is the time to install those missing thermostatic valves (except room(s) with the thermostat) or fix up/replace leaking rad taps.
If there is a tiny rad against the internal wall, 60 cm above the floor on the ground floor lounge with the French door, and someone had his feet frostbitten in the winter there, than up-size it to 2KW per 10M^2 and move it to under the window, no higher than 15cm from the floor.
Also if someone before had put 35KW boiler on a 10m run of 15 mm pipe, now is the time to replace it with 28 or 22 mm one.
Remember the BIGGER the rads, the MORE efficient the condensing boiler is (so the lower your's heating buill at the same room temp (up to 15% down). The house should reach 20degrees, with the boiler's flow at 40degrees, when there is 0 outside. So do upgrade those tiny ones in the corner rooms...

6. Check/flush HW cylinder and it's coil (if you have one). Also the boiler if it is coal/oil/wood or (your's mate is Gas Safe Reg). Brush/hoover/Pressure washer can be helpful there too, after all electrical components are isolated and separated. Soot/dust/dirt is a good heat insulator...


7. Hang/connect all the rads back.
a. Clean EVERY connector surface with the wire dish sponge. Do it in the concentric motion (not radial!).
b. Use Fernox LSX or similar on EVERY threaded/compression joint (and forget about the leaks...).
c. Connect the rads.
8. If there are some soldering jobs to be done, than drain the system and do it.
Also check the pressure in the expansion tank/weasel (if on sealed system). Use a bike/car pump to top it up to the 0.8 - 1.3 bars.

9. After opening of all rard taps, fill the system.
a. Afer all air removed/bleed and pressure topped up,
b. Run the boiler on the max temp for 1-3 hours, and check for any leaks.
c. Once it is cooled, now is the time to ballance it - leave all downastairs valves open, and close upstairs ones, then open by 1-3 turns each. The smaller rad, and the closer it is to the boiler, the less it should be open. Towel rail may need 1/5 -1/2 turns only.
d. Switch the system on medium setting (40 - 50 degrees). As it is warming note, which rads warm up first, those may need to be closed a bit more.
e. You aim for 10-20 degrees differential between the radiator's flow/return. Finetune based on the ammount of the heat required for each room.
f. Detect and close down the ones which have almost even temperature on the flow/return - those are bypassing the heat flow - so close them more.

10. Hope now you are warm and it is still Sunday evening. Ask your's missus to cook you a dinner (or breakfast if it's already Monday morning).
11. If all is OK on the next day - doze the system to the gills with the favorite inhibitor, and put a few pairs of the neodymium magnets (from eBay (N40+, 6mmX10mmX30mm)) on the boiler's return pipe (copper/plastic), so they attract and love each other across the pipe. The magnetic field direction angle should wary by 90-180 degrees between the pairs. Also do the same with the cold water feed (unless you already have a good mangetiser on it).
PS: While it is quite labor intensive, you and your's mate are not very likely earn yourself 500 GBP net over the weekend with average UK wage. Also it would save you the trip to the gym. And you are quite likely to forget about your's radiators for the next 5-30 years...







MOD's footnote.

As with all DIY there is a huge element of risk involved. While we cannot stop you attempting this procedure you should be fully aware that you could be making a bad situation far worse. You could also be running the very real risk of dripping black radiator water round the house. Then not only will you not get fed but you'll find your bags packed and by the front door.

Powerflushing may look easy but there are far more things to go wrong than right.

As always the UKPF stance is get a professional in.
 
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Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

or fit a new better system as you took it into consideration and deducted the cost from the house purchase.

welcome to the forum.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Welcome Bronze Tap,

(Mind not pinching fingers with them Magnets !)

Info overload enjoyed .... Jim
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

What kind of first post is that? :s

Dangerous for any poor consumer who thinks it will work just because he saw it on the internet compounding the belief in what he reads is the fact it's on a plumbing forum.

Of course being trade we should look on the positive side and not be critical of all the trouble such action would cause because the person who follows that schedule will be spending that 5K + GBP a lot faster than he hoped for.

All our fellow trades will also be delighted because they will get the new ceilings, re-decorating etc

Just hope the friend who helps him is a really good one because the poor man will be needing alternative accommodation for a while.

As for the Wife who slaved over the hot stove cooking for the pair?

She has just gone through the stress of buying a home, the resulting experience of the DIY madness may very well be all that she needed to return to the Solicitor who carried out the recent conveyancing to engage them once again to handle the ensuing divorce proceedings.

While it is a fun read imagining all the banging on rads and leaking joints I think the Mods owe the British consumers a duty of care and delete the well meaning post.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

I might as well get my self a set of car mehanic tools and join the mehanic forum
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

you can atleast quote over the phone......... what colour is the car? red, thats ÂŁ123.78 ;)
 
Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourse

Not an easy read but you can blame him for trying. Still not right but better than nothing.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Don't think I'll delete it but I might put a footnote on it.
 
Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourse

Uprating pipework and putting faults right aside, power flush is lots easier/cheaper, Shirley.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourse

Footnote added.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

no thats inc vat. and a free car air freshener :)
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Plus a glimpse at the calender. :smilewinkgrin:
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Its a shame in my opinion that the powerflushing business can be open to abuse and
overcharging.

In this case it probably was a job for a professional for 99% of home owners but it was good to get the full story.

In other cases a full blown powerflush is not essential and chemicals introduced to the system and circulated for a period followed by a mains pressure flush thro will be
quite sufficient.

However after the job fitting a good magnetic and non mag filter is essential as is getting the central heating water condition correct.


centralheatking
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Don't think I'll delete it but I might put a footnote on it.

Hi croppie,

On reading the long post again the O.P. describes a power flush with a budget cost of ÂŁ5,000.00.

Doesn't look right to me.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Peteheat

Not how I read it,
early on OP states

"will need a new CH system and been quoted 5K+ GBP for the Job?" --New_setup !
 
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Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Hi croppie,

On reading the long post again the O.P. describes a power flush with a budget cost of ÂŁ5,000.00.

Doesn't look right to me.

You had me going then Pete. It was a full system for 5k.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

You had me going then Pete. It was a full system for 5k.

Looks to me like he implies his method will or may work instead of spending the ÂŁ5,000.00

Best advice to consumers might be to ask why they need to replace the system?
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Its a shame in my opinion that the powerflushing business can be open to abuse and
overcharging.

In this case it probably was a job for a professional for 99% of home owners but it was good to get the full story.

In other cases a full blown powerflush is not essential and chemicals introduced to the system and circulated for a period followed by a mains pressure flush thro will be
quite sufficient.

However after the job fitting a good magnetic and non mag filter is essential as is getting the central heating water condition correct.


centralheatking

Well said CHK - you put that so much more tactfully than I did in one of my previous posts!

To be honest, the OP lost me around the second paragraph (re dumping into the fish pond!!! :uhoh2: ) and so I can't claim to have fully comprehended the advice given.

But I do think your advice will be useful to anyone wanting to avoid planting 800 smackers in the bank of BG! :sifone:

CH filters these days seem to include bigger and bigger magnets which seem to stretch beyond the role of protecting boilers to offer some scope for system cleaning and maintenance, i.e. providing the water is not too muddied and the radiators are not bunged up with magnetite. So chemical treatment followed by a non-forensic mains flush, followed by fitting a filter, is probably a good answer to reasonably soiled systems.

I've wondered whether a magnacleanse type cleaning unit with a pump fitted to send a pulse through the system periodically to stir up magnetite in radiators could replace the conventional power flush machine. The idea being that it would be fitted to a system for 48 hours or so, and wouldn't need to have an operator present. Once the magnets were removed with the black stuff clinging to them, the job could be finished off by attaching a hose to the machine which would them pump fresh water through the system to complete the clean - once again employing the pulsing facility of the machine. The final step being to fit a filter to provide long-term protection and more regular cleaning at maintenance level.

If bspareltd is looking for a new project at some future date, perhaps he could give it some thought.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

All sectors of the business is open to abuse that's what competition is supposed to help eliminate.

Friend of mine left a Magnacleanse hooked up to a system for three days after using the vibrating hammer on the rads.

A week after taking it off the new boiler was sludged up and that was with a magnaclean fitted.

Some systems need the power flush, preferably by someone not watching the time because he is trying to do two jobs in the same day.

Each system is as unique as the original installer and method used, better to employ the person who attends to the small details such as why is the vent always pitching.
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

Dear All, Thanks everyone for the replies.

Of course 99% of locals would be better seeking a professional because, That sort of project is not for anyone, but for someone who has a degree in natural sciences and has a very sound understanding of physics and chemistry, thermo-/ liquid- dynamics. If you don't know how to fix a compression joint leak, or what a convection and Bernulli law is, or what are the advantages of the counter flow heat exchanger - don't even attempt it alone. But if you comply with above knowledge requirements, and as an academic are short of money, but have some free time than...


I might as well get my self a set of car mehanic tools and join the mehanic forum
That's quite interesting, because my friend who taught me the practical aspects of CH system cleaning does all the maintenance on his car himself (including the change of the engine head-gasket/car radiator upgrade). He uses the garage only for welding and MOT. His car has very low emissions, despite being 13y old... He drives it only 1-2 times a week despite working full time.
Myself I've fixed a driver's side door lock and jammed electrical window for my another friend. After packing his car lock's cylinder with grease he forgot that the Christmas is coming, because it had stopped freezing... Despite that, I never have had a car, because I don't need it...


Uprating pipework and putting faults right aside, power flush is lots easier/cheaper, Shirley.
True. If done properly and there is still more water than the sludge in the CH sys.

As for the carpets soiling... Plug the radiator's holes when carrying, and usually carpets are in a such dilapidated conditions in those properties that the bare board/solid wood floor so so much betters/healthier...

To be honest, the OP lost me around the second paragraph (re dumping into the fish pond!!! :uhoh2: )
Sorry for causing some confusion, but I say: a. "pond with NO FISH/life", b. I mean it to be used as a SOURCE of water for a HI POWER pump, not as a dump.

All sectors of the business is open to abuse that's what competition is supposed to help eliminate.
Some systems need the power flush, preferably by someone not watching the time because he is trying to do two jobs in the same day.
Each system is as unique as the original installer and method used, better to employ the person who attends to the small details such as why is the vent always pitching.

That's so true... So why when having a property on the full British Gas homecare plan nobody of their "professional's" bothered to check the pressure in the boiler's expansion vessel!!?? It was completely flat... Or hovered up one inch of debris (+a few hornets) at the bottom of combustion chamber?? Or told, that the the boiler was "safe" to use, despite having 1/2 of the heat exchanger blocked by dust/dirt and having a yellow flames +(lot's of CO))...

I thought before, that the British Gas should be a benchmark in the British competence and service...
 
Re: Sludge flush failure DIY resolution (or how to do the proper & cheap job yourself

That's so true... So why when having a property on the full British Gas homecare plan nobody of their "professional's" bothered to check the pressure in the boiler's expansion vessel!!?? It was completely flat... Or hovered up one inch of debris (+a few hornets) at the bottom of combustion chamber?? Or told, that the the boiler was "safe" to use, despite having 1/2 of the heat exchanger blocked by dust/dirt and having a yellow flames +(lot's of CO))...

I thought before, that the British Gas should be a benchmark in the British competence and service...

Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/c...roper-cheap-job-yourself-2.html#ixzz2NWjVwnsM

Thankfully I don't have to answer for competence British Gas or our own (Irish) version Bord Gais employees / subby's.

The independent contractor has to build up his business by reputation or forever spend a fortune on advertising, those of us who have been in the business for a long time know that
"menu / package pricing" is only as profitable as the very small print that explains what's not covered, we don't have the time to be constantly trying to get our customers to buy the "upgrade plan".

I have seen the annual service being completed in as little as nine minutes, the boiler wasn't working properly but under the "Plan" a repair wasn't covered, however the boiler was Gas safe which
was covered in the small print.

Caveat Emptor.


 
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