Should I expect my towel rail (non electric) to be fitted like this

[Unhappy]

I’ve paid good money for a bathroom installation. This follows on from having an en-suite installed last year. Both involved replacing existing radiators with flexi pipe behind them with towel rails. When my towel rail was fitted in the en suite the plumber fitted with two very short pieces of pipe from directly behind the towel rail valves - a really nice fit. But my bathroom’s plumber has fitted like the first picture here with a large hole and lots of pipe visible - which I think goes against the point of a towel rail which you can see through. Am I in my rights to have expected a neater fit and get him to change? He says I should have specified at quote stage but it’s not something I specified to my en suite plumber. My expectation from looking at other houses and pics online is that the towel rail should be fitted like the second pic.

 

[Ric2013]

It's not technically wrong, but it's not very pretty.

Referring to the bathroom and not the en-suite:

Three questions I have for you:

1. Was the towel rail with the ugly pipes installed as a part of a contract for an entire bathroom renovation or was the contract just to remove a radiator and replace with towel rail?

2. Was the towel rail supplied by you for the plumber to fit, or did the plumber both supply and fit?

3. Was the bathroom work carried out by the same plumber that did your en-suite?

 

[Unhappy]

It's not technically wrong, but it's not very pretty.

Referring to the bathroom and not the en-suite:

Three questions I have for you:

1. Was the towel rail with the ugly pipes installed as a part of a contract for an entire bathroom renovation or was the contract just to remove a radiator and replace with towel rail?

2. Was the towel rail supplied by you for the plumber to fit, or did the plumber both supply and fit?

3. Was the bathroom work carried out by the same plumber that did your en-suite?

Hi thanks for replying
The contract was to renovate the whole bathroom including fitting new bath, wash basin, WC, tiling the floor and walls and any re plastering work.
I bought the bathroom fittings - the supplier recommended this independent fitter
It wasn’t the same plumber as the en suite
Thanks

 

[SimonG]

I’ve paid good money for a bathroom installation. This follows on from having an en-suite installed last year. Both involved replacing existing radiators with flexi pipe behind them with towel rails. When my towel rail was fitted in the en suite the plumber fitted with two very short pieces of pipe from directly behind the towel rail valves - a really nice fit. But my bathroom’s plumber has fitted like the first picture here with a large hole and lots of pipe visible - which I think goes against the point of a towel rail which you can see through. Am I in my rights to have expected a neater fit and get him to change? He says I should have specified at quote stage but it’s not something I specified to my en suite plumber. My expectation from looking at other houses and pics online is that the towel rail should be fitted like the second pic.

You're both right. You asked for it to be fitted, he fitted.
What should have been added is that you want it fitting as per the other towel rail.
Communication was the key.

Personally I would have priced it to do it the same as in the second picture. To me it needs to look good.

 

[exedon2]

Not the best as has been said. I would
myself always come out of wall with chrome plated tube.

 

[Ric2013]

I suspected you may have supplied the materials. Reason is that I used to subcontract to a builder and we had similar issues. Like I said to my builder, I'd want to do as per your en-suite, but to do so requires knowing the pipe spacing at first-fix stage, which is not always possible when the customer orders the materials (especially if they only turn up halfway through a job which was our experience). What we ended up doing was using microbore copper and painting it with zinc paint. With care, the pipe runs can be made less conspicuous than what you have there.

Back to what you can reasonably expect. If tiling was included, was painting included? Not to have painted behind the radiator looks a bit weird. I'd suggest if the quotation was very detailed about what was included and it did not include the radiator fitting to the standard you would have liked, then what was supplied is fair as (arguably) the point of the towel rail is to be able to hang towels on it rather than to be able to see through it. If the quotation wasn't very detailed, then perhaps you could argue your case (depending on what you paid: hard to say without having witnessed the whole job whether the price was high or not) and at least get something a bit tidier done, although it might not be quite to the standard you would have liked. You might also want to have a word with the shop that recommended the plumber - see what they think.

Why, out of interest, use a different plumber instead of using, again, the previous one that did a good job of the en-suite?

 

[Gasmk1]

The brackets imwould have fitted the other way adjustment screws on the bottom so you can’t see when looking at

 

[Chuck]

He says I should have specified at quote stage but it’s not something I specified to my en suite plumber.

Tell him you're giving him a chance to bring the work up to the standard of installation and finish a reasonable person would expect for the price he charged. Then, if he can't or won't play nice you'll need to get someone else to redo his work and then consider whether it's worth the effort to recover your costs via a small claims action.

Keep in mind that you can't get blood out of a stone. If you paid peanuts and got a monkey write it off to experience and this time get someone who knows their trade and has got a bit of pride in their work.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The brackets imwould have fitted the other way adjustment screws on the bottom so you can’t see when looking at

they bolt all the way through

as for retro fitting the towel rail eg replacing a 6x6 or 8x6 unfortunately on new builds this it how they do it and tbh if you didn’t say you wanted the pipes hidden then it’s one of them

you have two options

remove around 600-1m worth of plasterboard get them to first fix it and then reboard and skim and then refit the towel rail

to use a 1g plasterboard box and use this

John Guest Speedfit JG-ROP Radiator Outlet Plate - 10mm | Wickes.co.uk

John Guest Speedfit JG-ROP Radiator Outlet Plate - 10mm

www.wickes.co.uk

was the other bathroom reboard on the towel rail wall ?

 

[Unhappy]

Thanks for the advice all. Suppose the guy has got me. But as you all say if the guy had any pride in his work he’d be fitting the neater way. You live and learn I guess

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Problem is the neater way in end will be costing him money around £300 especially if there’s no plasters there

if you don’t mind how much has he charged you just the plumber

 

[oz-plumber]

My Opinion: Totally **** job.

 

[Unhappy]

Problem is the neater way in end will be costing him money around £300 especially if there’s no plasters there

if you don’t mind how much has he charged you just the plumber

£3500 inc VAT for fit of bath, toilet and wash basin. fitment of tiles to three walls and floor. Installation of radiator and wiring of LED mirror, supply and replacement of two new extractor fans (to existing positions).

 

[Ric2013]

£3500 inc VAT for fit of bath, toilet and wash basin. fitment of tiles to three walls and floor. Installation of radiator and wiring of LED mirror, supply and replacement of two new extractor fans (to existing positions).

Removal and disposal of previous bathroom included, or did you remove the old?

Were bath toilet and basin also to existing positions?

 

[Unhappy]

Removal and disposal of previous bathroom included, or did you remove the old?

Were bath toilet and basin also to existing positions?

Included removal and yes bath, basin and toilet in existing positions although there was also a new shower fitted above bath

 

[IND_Nick]

I agree with Oz, totally unacceptable standard of finish for a chrome towel rail. Just because that's where the pipework was originally does not mean it should not be redone for the next radiator.
However I would always express you concerns with the plumber in a constructive manner, if possible.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Why didn't you use the same guy who did your en-suite?

 

[Unhappy]

Why didn't you use the same guy who did your en-suite?

Too busy

 

[Unhappy]

I agree with Oz, totally unacceptable standard of finish for a chrome towel rail. Just because that's where the pipework was originally does not mean it should not be redone for the next radiator.
However I would always express you concerns with the plumber in a constructive manner, if possible.

Have done this. He’s having none of it. Says I should have specified but I haven’t seen a towel rail fitted any other way than what I got with the en suite.

 

[king of pipes]

Very poor standard of workmanship would he do this in his own home I think not ! Lesson learned communication is vital to avoid awkward situations not all of us are as detailed as others, even the ensuite is not great in my opinion fitted to low and standard copper pipe used looks far better in chrome plated pipe coming out the wall or floor . Kop

 

[Nwalky]

Any decent plumber when quoting for the job would have brought this to the customer's attention when discussing what they want fitted. The customer is the layman the plumber is the professional, simple as that.

Personally i would have just cut the microbore in the wall and converted it inside to 15mm then brought it out in chrome, far neater finish and something that the customer is happy with.

In my opinion it is unacceptable to leave this like it is

 

[Ric2013]

People have asked about the price. Did you supply ALL materials used on site except odd bit of pipework, screws, and perhaps some silicone sealant? Was there a written quotation or was the whole thing verbal? Most importantly: are you house or a flat, which town, and is there free parking directly outside?

Regardless of price, however, in the context of the overall project, I think a customer would reasonably expect an 'upgrade' to a towel rail to not have plastic pipe draped across at an angle (asymetrically, at that). I cannot think of many people who would want it as you have it and I personally would only have left it like that if that was clearly what we had agreed.

What I don't understand is why no mention was made of repainting or lack of it - this is the only bit that makes me wonder whether there was not a breakdown in communication that left the plumber thinking you were going to carry out work on the wall at a later state and therefore the towel rail installation is a bit temporary.

 

[Ric2013]

even the ensuite is not great in my opinion fitted too low and standard copper pipe used looks far better in chrome plated pipe coming out the wall or floor

Fit the towel rail higher (correct from a towel hanging perspective, but less great if it's the sole source of heat) and some people would think it looks weird. You can't win. I don't like the screw sticking out of the bracket though.

 

[Vee]

Personally I would not expect to call anyone working to this standard a plumber.

 

[SimonG]

Can everybody just hold on a minute.

Yes we agree none of us would have done it that way.

But it's only half the story.

Was it a quick and cheap job?

I always say it's easy to pull apart other peoples work, and again it is poor, but is it a case of silk purse and pigs ear?

I'll go back to what I said before, communication, solves all problems.

 

[Ric2013]

Was it a quick and cheap job?

Well that's what we've been trying to establish. The OP has told us the price but has not been absolutely clear on what was included, or the situation, and whether a detailed quotation was provided, hence my questions in post 22. We don't even know if the existing floor was concrete or whether the plumber had to ply line the floor and provide ply, tile adhesive, grout etc.

Those two elbows behind the radiator valves could at least have been made at the same angle without it being extra effort or cost. So why has the plumber made no attempt whatsoever to make that existing pipe look as neat as it can? Nor does it make sense to fit a towel rail to un-painted wall. Which, as I've said, makes me think the plumber was considering the towel rail to be a temporary fit. I agree there's something that doesn't quite make sense here.

 

[Unhappy]

Hi
The plumber was aware I would be painting. I always thought painting would be better done after the bathroom was installed. On the en suite we just about managed to get behind the towel rail to paint and will do again. I did ask if he could include decorating but he said he could not provide. The extent of the written quote was just an email as follows:

To fit your new bathroom suite including,

Removal of all old suite and disposing off site.

Turning the bath so the taps and shower are on the other side making the bathroom flow better.

Overboarding the floor ready for flooring.

All plumbing work

All plastering work

All electrics

New skirting boards

Tiling the bath area and behind the toilet and sink.
As you can see very little detail was provided. Note that floor tiling and replacement of extractor fans in this and our en-suite (to existing positions) was later added.

The floor was plyboard.

 

[Ric2013]

Would other plumbers agree that the towel rail cannot be considered to be included in that quote as 'bathroom suite' would not normally include a (heat) emitter?

 

[Unhappy]

Perhaps so but it was made clear when the plumber first came that the towel rail would be part of the job

 

[Ric2013]

I don't doubt you, but the papertrail has you over a barrel, in my opinion. That's my point.

 

[WC1]

Discussion of price should perhaps also include an idea of very general location.
The t/r install looks like something someone wasn't planning to do and maybe hadn't budgeted for.