Replacement integrated dishwasher not going all the way back

[Sheepdisease]

Hello everyone.

Bought a new dishwasher, which fits in the space of the old one horizontally but it doesn't go back far enough. It's very close to being flush but not enough. The difference is around 1.5cm.

Can someone please tell me how to get this fitting properly?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You can’t need to remove / reroute the two pipes

 

[townfanjon]

As above from ^^^ shaun , these can be a nightmare the manufacturer’s do not help , it maybe time for a plumber , sorry .

 

[Murdoch]

Sadly lots of appliances are getting "deeper" - probably because of insulation, so issues like this with appliances are becoming more frequent.

 

[Sheepdisease]

Thank you for your replies.

I was the one who originally fitted all the pipework, so it's time to do it again.

I figured out a way to have it all run in the gap at the bottom. I've hit a snag though!

I drained all the pipes and made sure there was no water in them. Worked my way through it all until I got to the mains supply.

That's when I started having problems. I've soldered a 90 degree elbow to it and all looked fine. Turned the water back on from outside and damn, it's leaking!

So, whilst heating up the elbow, I've caused water below ground to evaporate and unfortunately I just can't seem to remove it all.

I've heated it up several times and each time there is more steam and hissing. I'm out of energy and ideas at the moment. Can anyone please tell me how I can remedy this?

By the way, when I first soldered the elbow in the last photo it looked beautiful. As with each joint, I used used abrasive on the ends of the pipe, used flux, heated up the connector in the middle and the solder went into the joints wonderfully.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Chop the elbow off just to the right of the socket on the horizontal with a hacksaw or grinder depending on what you feel best with

Then just a bottle spray eg like you get with spray cleaners eg ciff etc

Dip the tube in as far it will go or upto it’s max then start spraying into a container/ bowl until there’s no more

Then reheat the elbow and pull it off once ready

Then clean everything and re do the elbow

 

[Sheepdisease]

Thank you for your reply. I don't quite follow, what am I trying to achieve here?

I can heat it up and remove the pipe from the elbow. I wasn't sure why I needed to cut it off and what the spray bottle is for?

I think it would help if I showed you how it looks at the moment.

 

[Radian]

If it leaked then there must have been a gap despite it looking beautiful! Bad luck. It's always a nightmare when water hangs around. ShaunCorbs is suggesting using a spray bottle stem to pump out any remaining water (if you don't have a wet vacuum cleaner handy) but you have to be quick with the soldering after you think its all dry so give it one last suck out after cleaning it all up and get right on to it with the flame.

 

[Sheepdisease]

Okay, that makes sense. I'll try that in the morning.

Why doesn't adjusting the amount of gas or twisting the nozzle change the size of the flame? It seems to create a huge flame no matter what I do. I want it to pinpoint much more so I don't have a huge flame.

I know I am aiming to hit the tip of the blue flame on the area that I was solder to be sucked into.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Use the gas flow knob to adjust intensity eg open it just enough for the flame to light and then back 1/16

Also leave an end open for the steam to exit on the pipe eg tap open / anything

 

[Sheepdisease]

Use the gas flow knob to adjust intensity eg open it just enough for the flame to light and then back 1/16

Also leave an end open for the steam to exit on the pipe eg tap open / anything

Thank you, that does work. Although the blue flame either flickers like a candle or goes into flame thrower mode. So, twisting the nozzle does absolutely nothing then?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Around 49 seconds that’s the flame you want

 

[Sheepdisease]

Thank you!

So in the morning, I need to remove the pipe from the elbow and get the water below floor level out as much as possible.

What's the best way to cleanly remove the pipe from the elbow? Add flux on top first, hold the pipe firmly whilst applying pressure to pull it away at the same time as heating? How about afterwards?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Heat the elbow up, you will start to see it start to spit solder / little fire balls come from the elbow with your grips wiggle the elbow off if it doesn’t move give it a few more seconds then try again if it still doesn’t move tap the underside of the top joint with your grips up should move

Then use a fine file to remove all the solder etc

Then use a bit of Emory sand paper on a roll to sand it good to remove any last bits of anything

 

[Sheepdisease]

Right, I removed the copper from the elbow and was a bit shocked by what I discovered. I've no idea how this happened other than assuming I got the copper red hot and as I did that, the pressure from water residue blew a hole in it?

 

[Sheepdisease]

Okay, now I am concerned. I heated up the pipe and no matter how hot it got, it would not budge.

I tried again and it's still not moving. I'm basically left with no pipe to work with if I cut this away under the connector.

 

[Radian]

I think there must still be water down below. Even if you can't see it when the flame is on, steam can still be transporting much of the heat away. Can you dip a pipe-cleaner or other kind of wick to get an idea of the amount of water still in the pipe?

 

[Sheepdisease]

I can't even fit earth sheathing through. I'm feeling so stressed right now, if I could get the elbow off I would feel a lot better,

 

[Radian]

Looks like it may be plugged with solder. Given that this pipe has a pressure reducing valve on it further along under the cabinets it must be joined to the main supply - but where? There should be a stop tap or isolating valve that you're using to isolate this?

 

[Sheepdisease]

Looks like it may be plugged with solder. Given that this pipe has a pressure reducing valve on it further along under the cabinets it must be joined to the main supply - but where? There should be a stop tap or isolating valve that you're using to isolate this?

The pressure reducing valve has been removed and will not be put back. I've stripped it back to basics.

In the last photo, you can see that I can managed to remove the copper pipe from the elbow that goes to all the pipes in the house. So, what you see in the photos at the moment is the pipe, with a useless elbow on it that I need to remove, which comes from the main supply outside through the ground and comes up through the floor here.

I have the kitchen tap open, the outside tap open and there shouldn't be any pressure/water left.

I would have plumbed it all differently originally if it wasn't for the fact that we have a water meter. I'm guessing that could be part of the problem with moisture being retained as it doesn't generate enough pressure to allow movement through the meter? The meter is much higher up so at the moment any moisture is allowed to drop using gravity to the copper pipe that I have cut off and shows in the photo to the left of the elbow.

 

[Sheepdisease]

I've tried heating it up twice more and it's not budging at all.

Applying flux hasn't made any difference. Even wiggling continuously with grips whilst getting it extremely hot isn't working.

It's heating up to the point that the metal is pliable.

I'm tempted to cut the elbow in half so I have access to the main and can suck the water out, but I am worried that I won't be able to get the remainder of the fitting off without ruining the pipe by bending it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sounds like you’ve way overheated it to the point of brazing it don’t think you will remove the elbow

 

[Sheepdisease]

That's very troubling news. I'm not sure what to do, we've not had water since around 3:00PM yesterday and no one will come to us today.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If you cut flush with the bottom elbow you will just have enough pipe to put either a coupling or elbow on it

 

[Sheepdisease]

Before you replied I came to the same kind of conclusion. I took an angle grinder to it and starting cutting down the elbow. When I saw this, my heart sunk.

As I cut further down towards the end of the elbow, it's looking better.

Even if there is just enough space, it's a mess. There's a big blob of solder and by this point I am very anxious that I won't get it right and there's literally no margin for error now.

FYI, I stuck the earth sheathing down the pipe and have removed at least 30cm of water. It tasted disgusting, there were traces of flux in it.

How much water needs to be removed? I can't remove everything from the pipe, it's all underground and goes for probably at least 10 meters before reaching the stopcock in the pavement.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Just use a file and sand paper / Emory cloth to sand it up clean / the Bly copper

You’ve still got a bit of elbow on the pipe btw

A good 8” should be / have no water

 

[Sheepdisease]

Just use a file and sand paper / Emory cloth to sand it up clean / the Bly copper

You’ve still got a bit of elbow on the pipe btw

A good 8” should be / have no water

Thank you for your reply. After I couldn't get at the pipe any more with the angle grinder, I got out my old Dremel. I've checked and you were absolutely right about how much pipe is available. I'm impressed you could eyeball that.

So if I sucked out 30c / 12 inches of water, that should be more than enough.

By this stage I am tempted to go with a compression fitting. I really don't want to, but at the same time I want to get water back in the house.

 

[Sheepdisease]

My concerns are that the problem now will be all the heat will be drawn into the surrounding concrete and/or I'm still going to have problems with moisture somehow.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Upto you the top layer of concrete will be soft so if you do need a bit you should be able to chip this up easily

That’s upto you tbh also don’t forget to reem the pipe eg internal burr

Also don’t forget to clean the fittings internally so shiny

 

[Sheepdisease]

Upto you the top layer of concrete will be soft so if you do need a bit you should be able to chip this up easily

That’s upto you tbh also don’t forget to reem the pipe eg internal burr

Also don’t forget to clean the fittings internally so shiny

Thank you for all your advice.

I'm going to leave it and let someone else deal with it tomorrow (hopefully). I shook the pipes and strangely I could hear there is still water higher up somehow. I tried blowing and sucking on the end of the pipe and it wouldn't shift.

It's doing my head in.

I'm still left with the question, how the heck can an elbow disintegrate like this? This was a new one yesterday. The pipe was new too.

Is this really what steam can do when heating up the elbow and soldering or is something else the cause?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes too much heat and steam / pressure can pop a hole in

 

[Sheepdisease]

It's so frustrating, I know exactly what I want.

 

[Sheepdisease]

After a lot of work, this is the end result.