Removing two isolation valves in awkward spot (on heating pipework)

[Plumb Line]

Hi folks

There's a couple of isolation valves on our radiator pipework (vented system). One started to weep a while back, but luckily stopped after a bit of tweaking. I've since learned they shouldn't be there, and so with some plumbing work coming up which will require a drain down, I'm going to get them cut out and replaced with copper pipe.

Seeing as the system will already be drained on the one hand, but given the awkwardness of the position of the valves on the other, what would you expect to pay (or charge if you're a plumber) to remove the valves and replace with copper pipe?

Cheers

 

[ShaunCorbs]

40 ish per valve maybe depending how it goes maybe less maybe more

 

[Chuck]

Seeing as the system will already be drained on the one hand, but given the awkwardness of the position of the valves on the other, what would you expect to pay (or charge if you're a plumber) to remove the valves and replace with copper pipe?

IMO, it's impossible to say as the work itself is pretty trivial so the bill will be for travel and hassle, which would depend entirely on whose doing the work.

Personally I'd probably just replace the isolator valve with a new full-bore one. They're not doing any harm and there may be a non-obvious reason that they're there. Somebody, quite competent to judge from their pipework, obviously thought they were a good idea.

 

[Plumb Line]

Thanks for the replies.

Just to be clear, the plumber will already be at the house doing other work, and the system will already be drained. @ShaunCorbs - did your guestmate have the in mind and if not how does it change it?

the bill will be for travel and hassle

As above - will already be here and system drained already.

there may be a non-obvious reason that they're there. Somebody, quite competent to judge from their pipework, obviously thought they were a good idea.

Would be very interested to hear under what circumstances they are needed. I am familiar with the layout of the pipework in the house and so happy to provide any info needed.

Cheers

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep would allow 30-40 mins per one depending on how they come out eg access

 

[Plumb Line]

I'm obviously in the wrong trade if you're on £60 - £80 an hour!

But really helpful to know, so thanks for confirming

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'm obviously in the wrong trade if you're on £60 - £80 an hour!

But really helpful to know, so thanks for confirming

So no allowance for materials or other things so 40-60 an hour

 

[Plumb Line]

Ah yes, fair point. I guess I imagined the two very short pieces of pipe and solder (or whatever) would be pretty negligible. But then I've no idea of the cost of such things...

Just reading up now on whether iso valves on heating pipes are a yay or nay. Seems most folk are against them, especially the type that I have fitted....

 

[WC1]

I'm obviously in the wrong trade if you're on £60 - £80 an hour!

But really helpful to know, so thanks for confirming

For each paid hour job expect half an hour for driving, maybe another 15 minutes in the merchant/online getting materials. Also deduct cost of:
training, insurance, advertising, book keeping, van purchase, van insurance, bad debts, time spent quoting, consumables, registration eg gas Safe.
And remember no paid leave, pension contributions, employees benefits Etc if you're self employed.

 

[Plumb Line]

For each paid hour job expect half an hour for driving, maybe another 15 minutes in the merchant/online getting materials.

As above, he'll be here all week refitting a bathroom and doing various other plumbing work. And the system will already be drained for the other work.

Also deduct cost of:
training, insurance, advertising, book keeping, van purchase, van insurance, bad debts, time spent quoting, consumables, registration eg gas Safe.
And remember no paid leave, pension contributions, employees benefits Etc if you're self employed.

That's all fair play.

 

[Scott_D]

Ah yes, fair point. I guess I imagined the two very short pieces of pipe and solder (or whatever) would be pretty negligible. But then I've no idea of the cost of such things...

Just reading up now on whether iso valves on heating pipes are a yay or nay. Seems most folk are against them, especially the type that I have fitted.***

Have a look at the price of a roll of solder and a length of pipe

 

[Plumb Line]

Have a look at the price of a roll of solder and a length of pipe

Not sure what solder it would be so don't what to look at for price, but presuming a small fraction of the roll would be needed for the job? A negligible amount?

Likewise pipe - £10 for 3m... Less than 1m needed...
Or am I missing something?

Also, if it's an hour+ or so to remove and replace with new pipe, how much time would replacing them for new full bore isolators take?

Thanks for all the repoleis and help

 

[Gasmk1]

Why haven’t you asked the plumber who will be there.

 

[Plumb Line]

Why haven’t you asked the plumber who will be there.

I have... £120. It felt high, but I don't know much about how easy, difficult, or time consuming a job it is, especially given that it is quite tight in a corner.

Totally guessing, I thought £120 - or more perhaps - would be expected if I called a plumber out to do just that job. But for a plumber who is already in the house and has already drained down for other work (price for drain down is incorporated into the other work), I thought it was quite high.

Total guess on my part though, which is why I came here to ask other plumbers!

Ta

 

[Gasmk1]

He either deems it difficult or unnecessary.

 

[Scott_D]

Not sure what solder it would be so don't what to look at for price, but presuming a small fraction of the roll would be needed for the job? A negligible amount?

Likewise pipe - £10 for 3m... Less than 1m needed...
Or am I missing something?

Also, if it's an hour+ or so to remove and replace with new pipe, how much time would replacing them for new full bore isolators take?

Thanks for all the repoleis and help

You can’t buy either by the centimetre though.

It may be that that section wouldn’t need fully draining to do the other work. Impossible to tell from the picture.

Sometimes adding an hour or two onto a job pushes you into another day. If you feel it’s too much best to get some other quotes.

 

[Ric2013]

Let's be realistic: you don't charge a customer for a roll of solder to install four couplings so actually I'm with the OP regarding material costs. You buy a roll of solder when you run out and (what I do anyway) is incorporate the cost of gas, flux, and solder into the charge for each end-feed fitting. As for the copper tube to replace those two isolators, if the customer doesn't object to the aesthetics of two joints in close proximity, then you are bound to have an offcut kicking about, so the actual cost we'd incur is the loss of the scrap value of the pipe we would otherwise have had no use for. Pretending otherwise comes across as nonsense.

To be fair, that's an awkward job, though. It's going to be hard to solder properly without cosmetic damage to nearby surfaces: I'd ideally want to remove the fan entirely, there's paint to remove, nuts to undo, and the pipes are close together and at ceiling height. It's right in a corner and I'd be up a ladder near the ceiling. Dripping water and the fact that I might not be able to get a flame around the pipe might mean I solder it and the solder doesn't seal properly and then I have to pull it apart and start again. It might all go smoothly, but if I were fixing a price I just know that's a job I'd quote low and then regret. I can understand if the plumber in question doesn't really want to do it (and I agree with Scott_d that an extra hour or two may not always be as easy to find as it sounds, particularly as there is here the real risk of over-running)

I'm not convinced fitting new isolators would be much quicker due to compression joints instead of solder, but I suppose it's less likely to go wrong.

 

[exedon2]

In my long and occasional bitter experience customers would often be better of trusting the tradesman to do this sort of job on day work. If you quote your always going to think worse case possible.
If you don't trust them to be fair with day work why the hell are you employing them?

 

[Plumb Line]

I'm not unhappy with the plumber, nor the quote.

I just wasn't sure, that's all. Which is why I came here to ask. If folk here are saying it's a fair charge, then I'm more than happy to accept that and continue as normal.

It wasn't a criticism of the quote, it was a check...

Appreciate all the replies, so thanks for taking the time everyone

 

[king of pipes]

Added into the existing works I wouldn't think it will add a fortune on your bill, have you had a estimate for the programmed work ? or a itemized quote, alot of plumbers either give estimates or work on a day rate simply because they end up doing more work than was allowed for, the work involved removing those valves is tricky but nothing any plumber couldn't handle the time spent doing it could vary draining down, doing the work filling and venting adding inhibitor and heat testing the system could easily take half a day, however as the heating needs draining to do other work I would personally add it into the work involved sorting out these alterations, if it takes a hour + a bit for materials then this would be added to your total bill,if it was the only work being done then Shaun's estimate is very fair in my opinion, we all have our ways of working but you need to be fair with your customers and usually they in turn are fair with you there will always be the odd person who expects something for nothing but communication and understanding of what's expected is vital on both sides. Regards kop

 

[Ben-gee]

Taken in with working there anyway and system being drained- about £40/50. But as others have said , if pushed for a price one would have to allow for worst case scenario in which case your £120 is not unreasonable.