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I will try to post pictures, but the summary is;
Old bathtaps, proving impossible to dismantle (long story), do not look like I expected when I open up the bath panel. Now seeking advice on best way forward.
 

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Ok Stone Age Man , I can see your problem. I have seen plenty of these as I am an old plumber. You really need to tell us what you want to do having started. Your taps are quite cute IMHO ..keep your cast iron bath or what ..let us know
centralheatking
 
They are called Globe taps.
If possible I would just repair them.
New 3/4” tap washers and seating if worn badly needs filed down to smooth surface with reseating tool.
 
As I needed to post pictures, I used my phone, but that is painfully slow for writing text. I intended to add more description in a second post, but haven't had a chance until now.

Both bath taps have been in situ, untouched since I moved in, (2001). They both show evidence of some previous attempts to shift them and the scars suggest they were not successful. With that in mind, I have not had any plans to make changes, but now I think I must. The hot tap developed a drip from the spout, quite suddenly, and I think the washer must have worn down and split.

Unfortunately, the mechanism has beaten all my attempts to remove it. I have a good sturdy 22mm spanner that fit the nut well, but even with a length of tube on it to increase leverage, it just won't budge. As soon as I tried other types of grip, it just chewed up the copper and ruined the nut (mole grips, boiler pliers, small stillsons and a new 12" stillsons-look-alike). Tried a good soak with WD40... applied heat (boiling water).... freezing spray (Crack-it?)... all over a few separate attempts.

So I read every thread I could find, watched every video... and realized that replacing both taps is the logical next step - and the one a professional would probably suggest. But I feared what I would find in the narrow space behind the panel. Now that I have opened it up, I have more questions than answers.

The pictures show hot and cold feeds in 15mm coming from the right. The feeds both have tees that lead up in the wall behind the tiles - although only the cold feed is in use (for the electric shower). The tap nearest to us, is the Cold, and the 15mm is used. But the far tap, the Hot, has a connection to increase it to a larger size (22mm?). Both taps are without threaded locking nuts. Does this mean that they were installed by the bathtub manufacturer?

The drippy tap has now become a major project (did I mention that this is a family bathroom in near-constant use) that will probably need to be done late at night when I can work uninterrupted.

1. Where would YOU want to make the cut to remove the tap from the tub?
2. Why do you think they took a Tee off the hot feed, if it isn't used?
 
New bath time tbh

What hot water system do you have ?
 
They look like bib taps, they thread into the brass fittings behind the bath. Try turning the whole tap anti clockwise, hopefully they will unscrew.
 
They are called Globe taps.
If possible I would just repair them.
New 3/4” tap washers and seating if worn badly needs filed down to smooth surface with reseating tool.
That's what I was hoping to do, but the mechanism simply refuses to separate from the housing.
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New bath time tbh

What hot water system do you have ?
Gas Combi boiler (2018), running hot water to kitchen sink, bathroom sink and bath tap (Electric shower), and just five radiators. Small house.
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They look like bib taps, they thread into the brass fittings behind the bath. Try turning the whole tap anti clockwise, hopefully they will unscrew.
The taps have a nice hexagonal section just as they go into the bath side, but there is nothing to grip on the pipework side. The nuts on the bath side bear the scars of previous battle, which makes me think they didn't/won't come off easily.
 
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That's what I was hoping to do, but the mechanism simply refuses to separate from the housing.
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Gas Combi boiler (2018), running hot water to kitchen sink, bathroom sink and bath tap (Electric shower), and just five radiators. Small house.
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The taps have a nice hexagonal section just as they go into the bath side, but there is nothing to grip on the pipework side. The nuts on the bath side bear the scars of previous battle, which makes me think they didn't/won't come off easily.

If they have a hex section on the tap then they do thread into the soldered brass fitting on the other side. If the taps are knackered anyway just get something on them and unthread them.
 
They are as @Best said, globe taps. They would more than likely have been put in by the Plumber using putty and paint, whilst the bath was stood on end and before it was installed. They will be difficult to remove but not impossible.

They are not available anymore due to regulations on back siphonage. The spout is within the bath and although you have an overflow which appears to be below the spout level, if it blocked, even partially, or has a flow rate less than that of the taps, then it is possible for the taps to become submerged in foul water. They are existing so don't need to be replaced retrospectively as far as I know.

Have you thought about what you will replace them with?

As best said, I would be tempted to repair them and spend some time on that. It should be possible for them to be re-seated, washer-ed and packed, as long as they are not corroded.
 
Have you thought about what you will replace them with?

As best said, I would be tempted to repair them and spend some time on that. It should be possible for them to be re-seated, washer-ed and packed, as long as they are not corroded.
I don't have any sentimental attachment to the taps, but THEY seem intent on out-living the house. I have carved a smooth shiny cylinder out of the hexagonal nut on the internal mechanism. I would have been happy to reseat and fit a new washer, but the Tap God's are denying me the opportunity. I might have another go, now that I can gauge the amount of work to replace both taps.

No, I haven't looked at what I would use as replacements
 
I don't have any sentimental attachment to the taps, but THEY seem intent on out-living the house. I have carved a smooth shiny cylinder out of the hexagonal nut on the internal mechanism. I would have been happy to reseat and fit a new washer, but the Tap God's are denying me the opportunity. I might have another go, now that I can gauge the amount of work to replace both taps.

No, I haven't looked at what I would use as replacements

If you have ruined the chances of using a key on the flats, then you will need to use a pair of footprints/pump pliers or something else that tightens slightly as it grips.



You could blank the existing holes and use the wall mounted method:-
1576085604250.png

As long as the projection is enough to clear the overflow.

Failing all that, change the bath.

Just a few suggestions, I don't know if any of them help at all but good luck.
 
Some seized parts, including the works in old or new taps are best loosened by a hitting spanner a sharp thump with a hammer.
Best to still have the body of the tap held somehow
 
If bath tub is made of some sort of metal, you can heat the taps with torch. Materials, both tap and cooper expands as they are heated. when they cool they will be lose.
 
Some seized parts, including the works in old or new taps are best loosened by a hitting spanner a sharp thump with a hammer.
Best to still have the body of the tap held somehow
Yep, tried the "engineer's fix". I have a trusty lump hammer, but perhaps my technique is at fault. I'm probably being too timid as I try to err on the side of caution.
I won't get another go at it for a few days, so perhaps I might take some practice swings in the back yard. My neighbours probably already think that my nocturnal plumbing has something to do with disposal of my victims. What will I do next!?
 
Some seized parts, including the works in old or new taps are best loosened by a hitting spanner a sharp thump with a hammer.
Best to still have the body of the tap held somehow
Pray tell, is that the same as 'whacking it gently'?
 
They are as @Best said, globe taps. They would more than likely have been put in by the Plumber using putty and paint, whilst the bath was stood on end and before it was installed. They will be difficult to remove but not impossible.

They are not available anymore due to regulations on back siphonage. The spout is within the bath and although you have an overflow which appears to be below the spout level, if it blocked, even partially, or has a flow rate less than that of the taps, then it is possible for the taps to become submerged in foul water. They are existing so don't need to be replaced retrospectively as far as I know.

Have you thought about what you will replace them with?

As best said, I would be tempted to repair them and spend some time on that. It should be possible for them to be re-seated, washer-ed and packed, as long as they are not corroded.
They might have been leaded in chking
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If bath tub is made of some sort of metal, you can heat the taps with torch. Materials, both tap and cooper expands as they are heated. when they cool they will be lose.
use Mapp Gas but be delicate. centralheatking
 
If you have enough space, heat the cooper tube instead. Cooper has a very high thermal conductivity. It heats up very quickly. So cooper is hot and tap is cool. Cooper expands tap dont. Thats a much better scenario.
 
"They might have been leaded in cking"
Could you explain that one for me please. I tried to get a better look at the pipe-side connection and I thought I saw something white, with perhaps some fibre (Hessian?). I'm trying to anticipate the kinds of difficulty I might encounter if I go for removal.


Also, because of my restricted access times, I'm considering whether to install a stop valve on the horizontal pipe section. This would allow me stop half-way through the job, if necessary. I'm wondering whether I can do this without introducing air into the wrong part of the run... I would be cutting out a small section and putting in a compression fitting stop valve. Of course my wife thinks I want to do this so I can avoid doing anything else to the tap, just dodging the bigger job to get her off my back. Actually, I'm trying to protect t her from a DIY disaster over Christmas.
 
"They might have been leaded in cking"
Could you explain that one for me please. I tried to get a better look at the pipe-side connection and I thought I saw something white, with perhaps some fibre (Hessian?). I'm trying to anticipate the kinds of difficulty I might encounter if I go for removal.


Also, because of my restricted access times, I'm considering whether to install a stop valve on the horizontal pipe section. This would allow me stop half-way through the job, if necessary. I'm wondering whether I can do this without introducing air into the wrong part of the run... I would be cutting out a small section and putting in a compression fitting stop valve. Of course my wife thinks I want to do this so I can avoid doing anything else to the tap, just dodging the bigger job to get her off my back. Actually, I'm trying to protect t her from a DIY disaster over Christmas.
Quite often in order to seal joints years ago including your taps it was common practice to melt old lead..it goes liquid at rel. low temps. then just pour it into the
hole to stop the taps wiggling loose. If you saw something White or a bit grey then
that whats it might be, a bit of hemp wound in also sounds correct.
centralheatking
 
If you think its leaded, DONT heat the cooper you will melt the lead before doing any good. Wrap a wet towel on the cooper, right on the joint and go for the tap. This is also good cooper stays cool and tap is hot. But you have to let it cool down before trying to turn. You can also hit the tap with a heavy spanner a few times while still hot.
Hope wifey will be off your back before Christma :).
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Be sure to open the tap before heating to prevent pressure build up
 
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Does it look odd to you,that the Cold tap is 1/2" while the Hot seems to be 3/4"?

They are both being fed from 1/2" on mains pressure (no storage tank in the loft), but the pipe to the Hot has an adapter that changes it to 3/4". As the overflow waste pipe is plastic, perhaps all the pipework was renewed until the taps... with the taps proving too difficult to replace.

In the meantime, I am looking at possible replacements and realising how much research is needed to avoid costly mistakes.
 
originally your hot would have come from the cylinder and tank fed so no its not odd for it to be in 22mm but most probably 3/4" so if you are changing the taps and altering pipes you will need to check and may need a 22mm x 3/4" adaptor socket
 
Does it look odd to you,that the Cold tap is 1/2" while the Hot seems to be 3/4"?

They are both being fed from 1/2" on mains pressure (no storage tank in the loft), but the pipe to the Hot has an adapter that changes it to 3/4". As the overflow waste pipe is plastic, perhaps all the pipework was renewed until the taps... with the taps proving too difficult to replace.

In the meantime, I am looking at possible replacements and realising how much research is needed to avoid costly mistakes.
Its not odd, always hot tank fed supply was 3/4 inch or 22mm and the cold was 1/2 inch or 15mm
centralheatking. watch out for 3/4 inch and 22mm connections ...its wicked they DO NOT fit but almost do
it can really throw you...compression or solder its the same problem...there are converters anyway
15mm and 1/2 inch interface just fine.
centralheatking
 
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I have been clicking Likes on all the responses, but I would like to thank everyone properly too. The forum is obviously full of valuable information already, but new questions will always come up, even if the answers are familiar to many of you. I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

Today I have started looking around online for possible replacements and the various options are all looking like a proper investment. Even some nasty looking old globe taps, "in need of refurbishment", were priced at £60 on EBay... and they looked worse than mine! And a new set of Bib taps will set me back from £120-£180. So I may be asking a few more questions before I start getting my card details ready. Forgive me if some of them sound a bit stupid, the easy ones are only easy if you know the answer (like "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire").
 
I have been clicking Likes on all the responses, but I would like to thank everyone properly too. The forum is obviously full of valuable information already, but new questions will always come up, even if the answers are familiar to many of you. I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

Today I have started looking around online for possible replacements and the various options are all looking like a proper investment. Even some nasty looking old globe taps, "in need of refurbishment", were priced at £60 on EBay... and they looked worse than mine! And a new set of Bib taps will set me back from £120-£180. So I may be asking a few more questions before I start getting my card details ready. Forgive me if some of them sound a bit stupid, the easy ones are only easy if you know the answer (like "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire").
Keep on asking ...your questions are the life blood of PF ...and of course our answers
centralheatking
 
I haven't made much progress on this project. I had no access time until last night. So I took some measurements and a couple of photographs, but did not get a chance to have another go at dismantling the tap mechanism. Investigations make it clear that even if I find a set of taps, I don't have much room to get a connection to the existing pipework (more on that later).

So my next step - I think - is to put in a stop valve on the Hot feed. This will allow me to stop the dripping hot tap and isolate it while I carry on trying to work on fixing/replacing the tap. I need to be able to "abort the mission" at a moment's notice. I want to ask the forum about the possible pitfalls.
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In the picture above, I will start by stopping the main stopcock (D), with the tap (A) open. I plan to make a cut at (B). How do I calculate how much water will come out?
 

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You do not need to work this out if you follow these instructions as very little water will leak out using this method.

Turn off your stopcock 'D' then open 'A' to relieve the pressure and also confirms 'D' has shut off properly. Then when the water has stopped running close 'A' tight, this will create a vacuum and hold most of the standing water in (like when you hold a finger on a straw it keeps the liquid in the straw until you move your finger and it then runs out). Then having your new stop valve ready, (I recommend using a compression full bore lever valve) and in the closed position. a shallow container like a roasting dish is ideal placed under where you are going to cut the pipe to catch the small amount of spillage or if no clearance under the pipe then an old towel will suffice. Then quickly cut the pipe and put on the new stop valve immediately on the boiler side of the pipe first as most water will be in that side of the pipework this can be done in seconds and very little spillage will occur if you are quick enough and the stop tap is already in the off position. hand tight the nut on that side and another 1/2 turn with a spanner. Then push in the tap side of the pipe and hand tight that nut plus a 1/2 turn with a spanner. if done quickly and properly very little spillage will happen. Turn back on 'D' open 'A' to purge the air until a steady stream of water flows and turn off 'A' again and check for any weeping compression joints on the new stop valve. If weeping occurs give it another 1/4 turn with a spanner this should do the trick. and all should be good to go. Important to not over tighten the nut and olive on a compression fitting.
 
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You do not need to work this out if you follow these instructions as very little water will leak out using this method.

Turn off your stopcock 'D' then open 'A' to relieve the pressure and also confirms 'D' has shut off properly. Then when the water has stopped running close 'A' tight, this will create a vacuum and hold most of the standing water in (like when you hold a finger on a straw it keeps the liquid in the straw until you move your finger and it then runs out). Then having your new stop valve ready, (I recommend using a compression full bore lever valve) and in the closed position. a shallow container like a roasting dish is ideal placed under where you are going to cut the pipe to catch the small amount of spillage or if no clearance under the pipe then an old towel will suffice. Then quickly cut the pipe and put on the new stop valve immediately on the boiler side of the pipe first as most water will be in that side of the pipework this can be done in seconds and very little spillage will occur if you are quick enough and the stop tap is already in the off position. hand tight the nut on that side and another 1/2 turn with a spanner. Then push in the tap side of the pipe and hand tight that nut plus a 1/2 turn with a spanner. if done quickly and properly very little spillage will happen. Turn back on 'D' open 'A' to purge the air until a steady stream of water flows and turn off 'A' again and check for any weeping compression joints on the new stop valve. If weeping occurs give it another 1/4 turn with a spanner this should do the trick. and all should be good to go. Important to not over tighten the nut and olive on a compression fitting.
Brilliant! That was a terrific description and I feel truly enlightened. Than my o u very much indeed.
 

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