Quoting off plans

[Beboers]

Hi Guys,

How do you go about pricing off plans? I've got some new builds in and struggling to price up as never had to do this before off plans. Any tips? Cheers

 

[Ermintrude]

Look at plans then write out a draft programme. ( the sequence and timescales involved for tasks and how they interlock)

Secondly do a take off for each item on programme.

Schedule out what you have quoted for including all the information you had and the drawing numbers and revision numbers. Add on 5% as you probably have 5% retention . If newbuilds make sure your cash forecast allows for claiming vat back (if owner builder)

With your programme note any work by others and how it will affect your works. Include this with your tender.

 

[AWheating]

measure with a scale rule and add 20-30%.

or even better price for labour only and let the builder worry about the materials.

 

[basildog]

I would get some help if it is your first time ?
When I had the building firm anything over about 50 k I used a QS for pricing also got an M&E consultant in as was fed up with plumbing systems that did not work as most small contractors are either too busy or lack the knowledge to design a larger system properly .
Nothing worse than a client you have kept happy only to find system not up to the job at the end ?
Architects are normally a waste of time when it comes to M&E or structual items !
Forgot to say if you do it yourself work logically and break down in to many sections .

 

[Ermintrude]

I don't do design work, haven't got PI for it and don't want it. M&E drawings and mfrs info. Any issues send a TQ - technical query. List all assumptions and make sure your using right scale in rule!!!!

 

[AWheating]

i suppose the first question is, what type of build is it. council/HA, small or large private? national builder?

 

[Beboers]

It is for a reasonably large local firm. But the other is a small house privately owned.
thanks for replies so far!

 

[AWheating]

do you have the spec? is there a sustainable code level? you need to know all the details tbh as new build tends to have a very low profit margin. Ive worked on jobs with 3% margin, so every time something went of plan the contracts manager went nuts.

something as simple as a steel girder being fitted can double your pipe runs, so make sure you study the drawings well.

 

[basildog]

I don't do design work, haven't got PI for it and don't want it. M&E drawings and mfrs info. Any issues send a TQ - technical query. List all assumptions and make sure your using right scale in rule!!!!

Yes scale is very true we used to do a lot of work with an Architect who refused to go metric !
He labelled his drawings as metric for the council but Oh what fun you had if you used a metric scale rule on site !
He got away with it and knowing his hatred of the sandal wearing listed building people he is probably still doing it !

 

[AWheating]

Yes scale is very true we used to do a lot of work with an Architect who refused to go metric !
He labelled his drawings as metric for the council but Oh what fun you had if you used a metric scale rule on site !
He got away with it and knowing his hatred of the sandal wearing listed building people he is probably still doing it !

probably had a software package from the usa, they still use old measures with alot of plans.

 

[basildog]

probably had a software package from the usa, they still use old measures with alot of plans.

No not him !
Was all top end stuff on listed buildings all hand drawn that is for sure .

 

[basildog]

measure with a scale rule and add 20-30%.

or even better price for labour only and let the builder worry about the materials.

I know what you mean but do you really think a main contractor has the time or resources to do this ?
I know for a fact my plumbers that I used in the past would have been going nuts at the kit if we had supplied it ?
I think most big merchants will do all the take offs for a plumber as they will a builder so materials is normally easily sorted ?

 

[Ermintrude]

I know what you mean but do you really think a main contractor has the time or resources to do this ?
I know for a fact my plumbers that I used in the past would have been going nuts at the kit if we had supplied it ?
I think most big merchants will do all the take offs for a plumber as they will a builder so materials is normally easily sorted ?

You would trust a merchant to do a take off? I wouldn't let a merchant take my shoes off. ( sorry ray) merchant has absolutely no need to be accurate? If jobs a mess he's still gets paid, job still gets done and your also done! As said before economies of scale mean new builds have low % profit so every penny counts. I might be tempted to try for some day works when on site too.... Just to buffer your account.

 

[basildog]

You would trust a merchant to do a take off? I wouldn't let a merchant take my shoes off. ( sorry ray) merchant has absolutely no need to be accurate? If jobs a mess he's still gets paid, job still gets done and your also done! As said before economies of scale mean new builds have low % profit so every penny counts. I might be tempted to try for some day works when on site too.... Just to buffer your account.

I know where you are coming from but yes if you have built up a track record ?
A bit like my old QS yes he would mak a mistake here and there and sometimes they were spotted as I went through the pricing before we submitted a quote but other times you took the swings and roundabouts !
All quoting or estimating even by proffessionals comes from experience and a gut feeling and anyone who thinks it is an exact science is in for a nasty shock !

 

[AWheating]

who in a merchant is experienced enough to understand drawings and systems to get materials lists exact? putting your profit margin in the hands of somebody who has no vested interest in your business other than selling you as much stock as possible seems a very bad idea to me and surley when you do the design you will make a materials list?
My old company had design engineers who did full design drawings and QS/Estimators who did full spec take offs and contract managers who where on a bonus to make profit margins and they still made little to no profit on some jobs due to extra materials and work not accounted for. You right there is no exact science, but its very easy to guess when its not your money.

As regards the builder supplying materials, it depends on the builder and size of the job. Small one man firms may find it better to go labour only, some wont have the cash flow. cash is king as they say. Some large builders will already have terms set and tell you what merchant you must use so they can get the rebate payments. some plumbing companies wont have the cash flow to supply enough materials for 3 months before payments. It all depends on alot of factors. Only you know the full details of the job, the builder and you capability.

 

[Ray Stafford]

You would trust a merchant to do a take off? I wouldn't let a merchant take my shoes off. ( sorry ray)

No offence taken Guy, I wouldn't want to take your shoes off anyway.