Question on upgrading hot water cylinder

[LordWest]

Hello,

I am looking into upgrading various parts of my residential block's heating and hot water system, which serves 12 flats that resulted from the conversion of two adjacent terraced houses. Our current hot water cylinder has 1000 lts capacity, is vented, is heated indirectly through a gas boiler, and is of the copper variety with an ill-fitting insulation blanket slapped around it.

I would greatly appreciate some feedback on the following:

If we were to upgrade our cylinder, would any of the modern versions make any difference in terms of energy efficiency?

What make would you recommend? There are not many manufacturers that make large capacity indirectly-heated vented cylinders. So far, I have found Hamworthy’s two models: Halstock (stainless steel) and Powerstock (glass-lined).
Halstock stainless steel calorifier - https://www.hamworthy-heating.com/Products/Hot-water-heaters/Halstock-stainless-steel-calorifier
Powerstock glass lined calorifier - https://www.hamworthy-heating.com/Products/Hot-water-heaters/Powerstock-glass-lined-calorifier

I will own my flat in this building for a while, and thus I would rather the building buys something of good quality.

The current capacity of 1000 litres has been fine so far. From your experience, do you think we could do with a smaller size? Eg. 700 or 800 litres? The 12 flats comprise of 2 small studios and 10 two-bed flats. It is high unlikely more than 20 people would be taking a shower within the same hour. Assuming 35 litres per shower, that would be 700 litres for 20 people.

Many thanks,

Constantine

 

[ShaunCorbs]

are you planning on keeping the system vented ?

me personally normally fit Powerstocks

as for capacity i would keep to the same as existing due to no problems if you lower the cap and theres an incurease of demand you would run out always better with some headroom

 

[LordWest]

are you planning on keeping the system vented ?

me personally normally fit Powerstocks

as for capacity i would keep to the same as existing due to no problems if you lower the cap and theres an incurease of demand you would run out always better with some headroom

Yes, I plan to keep the system vented. This is a 50-year old conversion with 12 flats and I would prefer not to take any risks with the additional pressure that a vented system would introduce to the existing pipes.

Thanks for feedback on Powerstock and capacity.

 

[Timlazisa]

Hello,

I am looking into upgrading various parts of my residential block's heating and hot water system, which serves 12 flats that resulted from the conversion of two adjacent terraced houses. Our current hot water cylinder has 1000 lts capacity, is vented, is heated indirectly through a gas boiler, and is of the copper variety with an ill-fitting insulation blanket slapped around it.

I would greatly appreciate some feedback on the following:

If we were to upgrade our cylinder, would any of the modern versions make any difference in terms of energy efficiency?

What make would you recommend? There are not many manufacturers that make large capacity indirectly-heated vented cylinders. So far, I have found Hamworthy’s two models: Halstock (stainless steel) and Powerstock (glass-lined).
Halstock stainless steel calorifier - https://www.hamworthy-heating.com/Products/Hot-water-heaters/Halstock-stainless-steel-calorifier
Powerstock glass lined calorifier - https://www.hamworthy-heating.com/Products/Hot-water-heaters/Powerstock-glass-lined-calorifier

I will own my flat in this building for a while, and thus I would rather the building buys something of good quality.

The current capacity of 1000 litres has been fine so far. From your experience, do you think we could do with a smaller size? Eg. 700 or 800 litres? The 12 flats comprise of 2 small studios and 10 two-bed flats. It is high unlikely more than 20 people would be taking a shower within the same hour. Assuming 35 litres per shower, that would be 700 litres for 20 people.

Many thanks,

Constantine

Petsonally i always apply if its not broken don't fix it rule. Are you replacing it because its leaking/not heating properly/ or just due diligence?

Tim

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Might be worth an ask if they could spray foam the cylinder if it’s in good condition that would improve the efficiency of the cylinder and bring it up to today’s standards insulation wise

https://www.nia-uk.org/media/1609/spray-foam-list-of-installers-130220-v2.pdf

 

[Gasmk1]

iwould go down the route of having one made if the 1000 litres is required manchester calorifiers make them to order whichever you choose wont be cheap, you will need to know the head of water as this will be needed to specify wall thicknes of cylinder.

cheapest option if just to see if the insulation can be upgraded.

 

[LordWest]

Petsonally i always apply if its not broken don't fix it rule. Are you replacing it because its leaking/not heating properly/ or just due diligence?

Tim

It is not broken, and likely I will not change it this year. My main motivation with replacing it is to further cut our yearly gas bills. Thus, if a modern and better insulated cylinder would make a difference, then I would certainly consider it.
[automerge]1581794878[/automerge]

Might be worth an ask if they could spray foam the cylinder if it’s in good condition that would improve the efficiency of the cylinder and bring it up to today’s standards insulation wise

https://www.nia-uk.org/media/1609/spray-foam-list-of-installers-130220-v2.pdf

ok thanks
[automerge]1581795066[/automerge]

iwould go down the route of having one made if the 1000 litres is required manchester calorifiers make them to order whichever you choose wont be cheap, you will need to know the head of water as this will be needed to specify wall thicknes of cylinder.

cheapest option if just to see if the insulation can be upgraded.

Thanks. FYI, Manchester Calorifiers has closed down. It seems that McDonald Engineers do cylinders as well.

 

[king of pipes]

A commercial plate heat exchanger would be my choice but from your previous posts the boiler set up would need upgrading the old girl wouldnt cut it . Regards kop

 

[LordWest]

A commercial plate heat exchanger would be my choice but from your previous posts the boiler set up would need upgrading the old girl wouldnt cut it . Regards kop

You are indeed correct. We will be installing a new boiler with a plate heat exchange, because this the rads and pipes are 50 years old. I will be posting some questions in relation to this.

 

[king of pipes]

Cascade it ideal Evomax was my go to set up when commercial . Regards kop

 

[Gasmk1]

It is not broken, and likely I will not change it this year. My main motivation with replacing it is to further cut our yearly gas bills. Thus, if a modern and better insulated cylinder would make a difference, then I would certainly consider it.
[automerge]1581794878[/automerge]

ok thanks
[automerge]1581795066[/automerge]

Thanks. FYI, Manchester Calorifiers has closed down. It seems that McDonald Engineers do cylinders as well.

sorry nt been to them for 15 years at least so didnt know

 

[LordWest]

Cascade it ideal Evomax was my go to set up when commercial . Regards kop

Thanks. I researched this quite extensively, and I also came across that article and it is rather informative. Currently, hot water and heating have different boilers. The hot water system is not as old or dirty as the heating system, because the hot water passes only through the pipes and cylinder coil. Thus, the coil acts as heat exchange itself. If we were to cascade the boilers, woudl it make sense to put a separate heat exchanger just for the legacy heatign system? Thus, the 2 boilers woudl provide hot water to (1) hot water cylinder through coile acting as heat exchanger, and (2) radiators through a new separate heat exchanger? If yes, with this set up can you regulate different temperature goign to (1) and (2)? Hot water shoudl ideally be at a certain tempearature for helath reasons, whereas heatign is more flexible.

 

[king of pipes]

This sort of project needs a heating consultant to advise and design a system suitable for the building i have fitted many plantrooms and boiler houses in my time and a properly designed packaged system will pay for its self over the next 20 years , so my advice research all you like but get it designed properly . There are many ways to do it my only consern would be water quality plate heat exchangers dont like a dirty system so keeping the system clean is vital, attached below is just a few worth considering.

 

[LordWest]

This sort of project needs a heating consultant to advise and design a system suitable for the building i have fitted many plantrooms and boiler houses in my time and a properly designed packaged system will pay for its self over the next 20 years , so my advice research all you like but get it designed properly . There are many ways to do it my only consern would be water quality plate heat exchangers dont like a dirty system so keeping the system clean is vital, attached below is just a few worth considering.

Thanks for the feedback. The research I do is just for own better understanding, and certainly not for me to design a system I am not qualified to design. Are you John in the contact form for Lok?

 

[king of pipes]

No mate just a example they are the sort of outfit you should be approching though . Regards kop