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Discuss Power Flush after visit in the Central Heating Forum area at PlumbersForums.net

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Hi

I have recently had a visit from an engineer as I am covered under a homecare agreement I've had for around 18 years. This was for a leaky draincock valve. When I asked them to add inhibitor due to advice I received on this forum he said he would but then pulled out a pipe clogged with black sludge and said it couldn't be added due to it needing a powerflush, also saying in future they might not be able to fix future callouts unless I had this flush.

I am unable to afford it at the moment so this isn't an option. Is there anything else I can do to clear it?
 
Poor system water quality is an issue that affects modern boilers much more than older ones.

It is true that inhibitor will work better on a clean system.

If they have been maintaining the system for the last 18 years (or is it just a breakdown or boiler agreement), then sludge should have been prevented in the first place.

Sounds like an excuse to avoid doing any work. That's the trouble with insurance: it's either very expensive or it has so many terms that its value to you is doubtful.
 
1. Did he "pull out a pipe clogged with black sludge", or did he undo the top of a filter (canister shape, usually black plastic with large lid with ribbed edge). If the latter then it was the magnet from the filter. This pulls magnetite (the black sludge) out of the system, and merely needs to be rinsed off with clean water and put back in the filter.
2. There is nothing to stop you adding inhibitor to a sludged system, indeed, even such a system benefits from inhibitor, which stops the radiators rusting from the inside.
3. I agree with Ric2013 - looking for paid work and an excuse to avoid what you have paid for over the last 18 years.
4. If you can, please post a picture of the "pipe clogged with black sludge", or at least where it was pulled from.
 
Hi, it was so quick I didn't really understand what was going on, but it was a white - very thin pipe about half a meter long and black sludge was is in. I don't know where it came from or where it was put back in but it would have been the area he was about to put the inhibitor in.
 
What make/model/photo of boiler do you have? It may be so old that while it will work better with clean water, a bit of sludge won't harm it significantly.

Also, worth reading the Ts and Cs as some policies won't even cover a boiler of that age or will apply quite limiting terms. Find out what you are paying for.
 
What make/model/photo of boiler do you have? It may be so old that while it will work better with clean water, a bit of sludge won't harm it significantly.

Also, worth reading the Ts and Cs as some policies won't even cover a boiler of that age or will apply quite limiting terms. Find out what you are paying for.
hi, I had it fitted around 2008, it's a Halstead HE. When I moved into this house, as I was already covered from previous houses they came out to the boiler already in and put an out of service warning notice on so I had a new one fitted in the loft (by another company).
 
I am extremely worried now every time I put the heating on that this sludge is going to do further damage and not only that, but no inhibiter is going to further the rust and sludge.
 
In practice, most heating systems have substandard water and even my own heating system, after I powerflushed it, only JUST passed the most basic water quality standard someone installing a new boiler would require (and there's still a number of lazy installers - or installers willing to cut corners - who fit boilers without checking the water quality in the first place).

The fact that it was black sludge and not brown suggests that there isn't an awful lot of active corrosion going on - the sludge may have been there for years. Bear in mind that what could damage your boiler will be in circulation. The sludge sitting in your radiators won't harm anything. In fairness, a powerflush doesn't get everything anyway: I have personally (so I know it was done to a reasonably high standard) powerflushed the same system 2 years in a row and still got quite a lot out of it the second time round. And, if it's a sealed system (which I think is what you have), the corrosion process will be very slow anyway, unless you have leaks and are forever topping up the pressure.

Inhibitor isn't expensive, however, and there's absolutely no reason you can't add some, even with poor water quality.

If a powerflush isn't affordable, if you can find a plumber that will add a system filter (Magnaclean, TF1, or similar) on the boiler return (ideally without draining down to avoid bringing stagnant sludge into circulation - find a plumber with a pipe freezing machine?), that will do an awful lot to filter out sludge and prevent it getting into the boiler. If you already have a filter and said filter has been cleaned in the last year, happy days.

Also, I think your insurance provider has tried to brainwash you by using fear tactics. Yes, that's a reasonably modern boiler (though not one I'm familiar with) and will prefer clean water, but it's also 18 years old, which, for a modern boiler, is already pretty good going. The efficiency of modern boilers comes at the expense of longevity and you won't get 50 years out of it like you could with the beasts of yore. You could powerflush the system and the boiler could break down anyway. Also, sludge will not cause a draincock valve to leak. The draincock probably leaked because the rubber washer had perished with age and heat (unless you opened it and the sludge prevented it resealing?), so not convinced the sludge has caused any damage (you mention further damage?).

Boiler aside, I can't think of any other components that are especially likely to suffer from a dirty system.
 
Thank
In practice, most heating systems have substandard water and even my own heating system, after I powerflushed it, only JUST passed the most basic water quality standard someone installing a new boiler would require (and there's still a number of lazy installers - or installers willing to cut corners - who fit boilers without checking the water quality in the first place).

The fact that it was black sludge and not brown suggests that there isn't an awful lot of active corrosion going on - the sludge may have been there for years. Bear in mind that what could damage your boiler will be in circulation. The sludge sitting in your radiators won't harm anything. In fairness, a powerflush doesn't get everything anyway: I have personally (so I know it was done to a reasonably high standard) powerflushed the same system 2 years in a row and still got quite a lot out of it the second time round. And, if it's a sealed system (which I think is what you have), the corrosion process will be very slow anyway, unless you have leaks and are forever topping up the pressure.

Inhibitor isn't expensive, however, and there's absolutely no reason you can't add some, even with poor water quality.

If a powerflush isn't affordable, if you can find a plumber that will add a system filter (Magnaclean, TF1, or similar) on the boiler return (ideally without draining down to avoid bringing stagnant sludge into circulation - find a plumber with a pipe freezing machine?), that will do an awful lot to filter out sludge and prevent it getting into the boiler. If you already have a filter and said filter has been cleaned in the last year, happy days.

Also, I think your insurance provider has tried to brainwash you by using fear tactics. Yes, that's a reasonably modern boiler (though not one I'm familiar with) and will prefer clean water, but it's also 18 years old, which, for a modern boiler, is already pretty good going. The efficiency of modern boilers comes at the expense of longevity and you won't get 50 years out of it like you could with the beasts of yore. You could powerflush the system and the boiler could break down anyway. Also, sludge will not cause a draincock valve to leak. The draincock probably leaked because the rubber washer had perished with age and heat (unless you opened it and the sludge prevented it resealing?), so not convinced the sludge has caused any damage (you mention further damage?).

Boiler aside, I can't think of any other components that are especially likely to suffer from a dirty system.
THANKyou, yes i do have a leak somewhere which I can't find and have to top up the system every 8 days or so. The system was drained to fix this latest leak.
 
Thank

THANKyou, yes i do have a leak somewhere which I can't find and have to top up the system every 8 days or so. The system was drained to fix this latest leak.
Well, that's good. At least you've solved the leak so now the system should stay reasonably sealed, which means you won't be constantly adding oxygen to the water.

You mean to say he drained the system, mended a leak and didn't add inhibitor? In fairness, where I am currently in Italy they don't seem to use inhibitor at all and the systems just don't seem to rust - might be something to do with the local water, but in the UK inhibitor is (rightly or wrongly) considered a necessity. It is very unusual not to fit inhibitor, so it leaves me questioning the professionalism of the service you have received if inhibitor was not added upon refilling.
 
Well, that's good. At least you've solved the leak so now the system should stay reasonably sealed, which means you won't be constantly adding oxygen to the water.

You mean to say he drained the system, mended a leak and didn't add inhibitor? In fairness, where I am currently in Italy they don't seem to use inhibitor at all and the systems just don't seem to rust - might be something to do with the local water, but in the UK inhibitor is (rightly or wrongly) considered a necessity. It is very unusual not to fit inhibitor, so it leaves me questioning the professionalism of the service you have received if inhibitor was not added upon refilling.
Hi, the leak hasn't been fixed unfortunately just the latest one, I can't find the leak and it's driving me potty as I need to top it up every week. I think I need to go under the sink as occasionally I hear a drip drip when the heating is first turned on. It's reassuring to hear about the inhibitor not being added in Italy, I don't know the water quality but here it's very soft as water is drawn from the Lake District if hardness/softness make a difference to anything.
 
How much has it cost you over 18 years and how much have you needed to have done covered by them out of curiosity?
Hi, I haven't had them out in years until 2020/21. It's more peace of mind of getting an emergency engineer out in the event of this being needed but they don't seem to be as reliable as they used to be with even them struggling to get their own engineers out.
 

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