Power Flush advice needed

[ARLester]

Dear all
I’m a home owner looking for advice.
I recently had a power flush which was unsuccessful at clearing a blocked pipe. I do appreciate these things are not guaranteed.

My question is does time taken reflect on outcome?
The reason I need to understand this is the company employed to undertake the flush declared it having not worked after just 2 hours of flushing (excluding setting up) despite being booked all day. I’m therefore now wondering if they would have cracked on for longer, surely the chances of success would have increased whereas bailing out after just 2 hours seems like I’ve been shortchanged.
Not looking for a witch hunt just trying to understand if time spent flushing is relative to the success in clearing blockages
Thanks in advance.

 

[Ben-gee]

Depends on size/complexity of system, but last flush I did in 12 rad 3bed house took 8-9 hours.
I don’t think they’ve been very thorough...

 

[ARLester]

Depends on size/complexity of system, but last flush I did in 12 rad 3bed house took 8-9 hours.
I don’t think they’ve been very thorough...

Thanks Ben. As said, not looking for a blame game as I have to take some responsibility for lack of research but trying to ascertain if it’s worth getting another company to have a look. In essence, if I’m wasting my time, I don’t want to throw good money after bad but if 2 hours of flushing wasn’t ever gonna prove it wasn’t possible to clear the blockage, I’m willing to try again. To me, I think I wanted them to be hammering at it all day before throwing in the towel.

 

[Chuck]

Not looking for a witch hunt just trying to understand if time spent flushing is relative to the success in clearing blockages

Once a pipe is really blocked a power flush is probably not going to fix it. If it's a reasonably short and reasonably straight section with easy access to one end it may be possible to 'snake' it. In many cases the blocked section has to be cut out and replaced. If access is really difficult it may be better to bypass the blockage with a new section of pipe in parallel.

Compared with about a day's labour, chemicals, use of the equipment, etc. for a pressure flush, if you know where the block is, it may turn out cheaper to replace the blocked pipe anyway.

 

[ARLester]

Once a pipe is really blocked a power flush is probably not going to fix it. If it's a reasonably short and reasonably straight section with easy access to one end it may be possible to 'snake' it. In many cases the blocked section has to be cut out and replaced. If access is really difficult it may be better to bypass the blockage with a new section of pipe in parallel.

Compared with about a day's labour, chemicals, use of the equipment, etc. for a pressure flush, if you know where the block is, it may turn out cheaper to replace the blocked pipe anyway.

Thanks Chuck. That’s the issue unfortunately. It’s under a solid oak floor without thresholds so really looking at every possible option bar ripping up the floor. If it’s wasn’t for the floor, I’d have repiped straight away.
can’t help but think if the chaps had spent more time, there remained a chance it may have worked. May not of course but I would have exhausted that option. Given they were only at it for 2 hours, I’m now intrigued to know, and frustrated that it may have worked, or still May work with more time spent at it.
from the little I know, it’s the patience and time spent that defines a really thorough and great job vs a rush job. Had they been at it all day, with little or zero success, I’d absolutely rule it out. Just the maybe is still lingering

 

[Ben-gee]

Are you on microbore? Less chance of success if you are.

 

[ARLester]

Are you on microbore? Less chance of success if you are.

No Ben. 22mm into 15mm plastic

 

[Ric2013]

I wonder whether in their experience, they decided that if it hadn't cleared after two hours, it wasn't going to?

In fairness, whenever I've carried out a powerflush, it hasn't felt so much a high pressure method for clearing blockages as a high flow method for reducing partial obstructions, and I do wonder whether there may be better ways of clearing a total blockage.

Was it their decision to go home early and charge a full day anyway or was it your decision based on their feeling they weren't getting anywhere, out of interest?

 

[ARLester]

I wonder whether in their experience, they decided that if it hadn't cleared after two hours, it wasn't going to?

In fairness, whenever I've carried out a powerflush, it hasn't felt so much a high pressure method for clearing blockages as a high flow method for reducing partial obstructions, and I do wonder whether there may be better ways of clearing a total blockage.

Was it their decision to go home early and charge a full day anyway or was it your decision based on their feeling they weren't getting anywhere, out of interest?

Hi Ric and thanks for the response.
mess their decision. I was just the passenger in all this footing the Bill. Which was £750 for 5 radiators Would have thought half a day and half the fee would be reasonable but that’s another conversation. For me, I’m looking for a solution and had they have been there all day without success, well you couldn’t ask for more. But two hours before throwing in the towel ................ just not sure it’s exhausted the possibility it may have cleared. In my laymen’s humble opinion, I would have chosen for them to crack on and accept the costs of a full days graft. That way I could have satisfied myself that it just wasn’t gonna work. Instead I’m left wondering.

 

[Ric2013]

For me, I’m looking for a solution and had they have been there all day without success, well you couldn’t ask for more. But two hours before throwing in the towel ***************. just not sure it’s exhausted the possibility it may have cleared. In my laymen’s humble opinion, I would have chosen for them to crack on and accept the costs of a full days graft. That way I could have satisfied myself that it just wasn’t gonna work. Instead I’m left wondering.

Speaking just for myself here, I agree with you.

 

[Knappers]

Its not unreasonable for them to stick to the original job. If its just that pipe that you were trying to clear then 2h is prob enough time to know its not going to happen.
Personally I would offer any possible alternatives, I've had success with high pressure back up pipe and some vigorous adjutation but its not an established practice, could end in burst pipe and usually needs replacing.

 

[Knappers]

For that money I'd expect more

 

[ARLester]

For that money I'd expect more

Thanks knappers. In your opinion, would you feel you’ve exhausted the possibility of clearing the blockage after 2 hours? Was chatting to a company today and they said it’s really a persistence and patience game and not unusual for a blockage to slowly clear over a few hours. Once the flow is marginally restored, it becomes increasingly easy and quicker to clear the rest as the flow through the blockage is possible

 

[Timmy D]

Tbh, me personally, I’m not getting beaten by a blocked piece of pipe. It just a pipe. One way or another it’s getting unblocked.

That might mean cutting in access and using steel wire inside to try and free stuff up.
It might be calling it a day after 2 hours with the view of leaving the chemical in for a few days (duration depends on chemical) and coming back for round two.

I’d discuss all this with you and come to an agreeable solution/cost for both parties.

Only once, have I not be able to deliver what I said I could and it still bugs me. Never again.

 

[Knappers]

If there's any flow at all then definitely but if absolutely none then its very unlikely powerflushing is all about flow and not a fix all solution. I think its been mentioned that a straight run (no elbows) could be 'snaked'. I wouldn't go straight into another powerflush but find someone to asses the job and make recommendations.
If anything in your situation id avoid anyone who puts too much emphasis on a powerflush.

 

[ARLester]

Tbh, me personally, I’m not getting beaten by a blocked piece of pipe. It just a pipe. One way or another it’s getting unblocked.

That might mean cutting in access and using steel wire inside to try and free stuff up.
It might be calling it a day after 2 hours with the view of leaving the chemical in for a few days (duration depends on chemical) and coming back for round two.

I’d discuss all this with you and come to an agreeable solution/cost for both parties.

Only once, have I not be able to deliver what I said I could and it still bugs me. Never again.

Wish you were the guy I’d chosen based on that. My process was chems into system then left for a few weeks. Drain down and unfortunately zero improvement. Then two options, repipe or power flush. I pushed for repipe but was swayed towards power flush.
mad mentioned previously, not looking to blame anyone as appreciate no one can inside a blockage but can’t dismiss I’m a tad peeved that was quoted £750 for 5 rads based on 2 people taking all day and after 2 hours of flushing, called it a day and still charged me £750 although that’s a seperate conversation. Right now, I’m trying to establish if that’s acceptable or really wouldn’t it have been better to crack on as nloackage could have shifted 5 mins later. Won’t know if you don’t try.

 

[Knappers]

Tbh, me personally, I’m not getting beaten by a blocked piece of pipe. It just a pipe. One way or another it’s getting unblocked.

That might mean cutting in access and using steel wire inside to try and free stuff up.
It might be calling it a day after 2 hours with the view of leaving the chemical in for a few days (duration depends on chemical) and coming back for round two.

I’d discuss all this with you and come to an agreeable solution/cost for both parties.

Only once, have I not be able to deliver what I said I could and it still bugs me. Never again.

I've been beaten too but only by customers budget, sometimes its just easier to replace. I know the feeling, the more you try the harder it is to accept.
Thinking about some kind of water hammer/shock device now....

 

[Knappers]

You should be cautious with cleaning chemicals after a while they'll start eating your rads and probably cause a blockage.

 

[king of pipes]

Not really what you signed up for but high pressure flushing and harsh chemicals it would consern me a mix of plastic connected to copper? Theres quite a high probability of a failure and if it's under a oak floor then your in deep s--t and at a guess the cleaning operative probably wanted to avoid this, saying that £750 seems alot for 2 hours and it maybe worth asking for a reduction due to the time spent on site. Kop

 

[Ric2013]

Going slightly OT, but think we've covered the OP's question.

Has anyone tried using a pressure testing pump on a run like this? Hep2O will take 12 Bar at 20° and I wonder whether it might ne possible to isolate the section and pressurise and whether that might start to shift the blockage? If a fitting failed, you'd only lose a small quantity of water, and if it's ground floor, you don't even risk staining the ceiling below.

 

[ARLester]

Going slightly OT, but think we've covered the OP's question.

Has anyone tried using a pressure testing pump on a run like this? Hep2O will take 12 Bar at 20° and I wonder whether it might ne possible to isolate the section and pressurise and whether that might start to shift the blockage? If a fitting failed, you'd only lose a small quantity of water, and if it's ground floor, you don't even risk staining the ceiling below.

Thanks Ric. All ideas are great ideas. Unfortunately the only reason I haven’t just cut my losses and repiped is all pipework is under oak floors that just can’t come up without having to be renewed. So looking for any options that might avoid this. Having said that, it’s a great idea. Thankyou

 

[Ric2013]

Thanks Ric. All ideas are great ideas. Unfortunately the only reason I haven’t just cut my losses and repiped is all pipework is under oak floors that just can’t come up without having to be renewed. So looking for any options that might avoid this. Having said that, it’s a great idea. Thankyou

My point was that, if this idea might work, it might prevent you having to lift the oak floor in the first place. Darn sight cheaper than a powerflush too. But I've never tried it.

 

[Timmy D]

My point was that, if this idea might work, it might prevent you having to lift the oak floor in the first place. Darn sight cheaper than a powerflush too. But I've never tried it.

I was hesitate to post what I’m about to, as I’ve never done it and it could cause all sorts of havoc.

If the problem areas can be isolated. You cut in/connect at one end of the blockage and open up the other end. Then how about connecting an air compressor and blasting it. Or even a jet wash?

All fittings should be able to stand the rated water regs pressure of 10 bar and to comply + 50%. This doesn’t mean old fittings will accept that, but you’d be able to get more pressure in there than a power flush pump can achieve.

I’m sure as hell not liable for anything going wrong should you take this crazy route

 

[Ben-gee]

I have disconnected a 2.5m length of acorn before and tried ‘rodding’ it with a length of threaded bar and a hammer, then took it to a local mechanics to use their airline - none of this worked, it was solid.
In this case it was easy to replace the pipe.
You may find it easiest to re-pipe via a different route and just leave the old pipe under the oak floor (disconnected)

 

[Timmy D]

G

I have disconnected a 2.5m length of acorn before and tried ‘rodding’ it with a length of threaded bar and a hammer, then took it to a local mechanics to use their airline - none of this worked, it was solid.
In this case it was easy to replace the pipe.
You may find it easiest to re-pipe via a different route and just leave the old pipe under the oak floor (disconnected)

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Knappers]

I've cleared a blockage with air before, it made a hell of a mess when it let go! (Won't be doing it again)
This is my 'cunning plan' for next time!

 

[Chuck]

I've cleared a blockage with air before, it made a hell of a mess when it let go! (Won't be doing it again)

Using compressed air to clear blockages is potentially dangerous. Much safer to use water to apply the force.

 

[jh2254]

Once a pipe is really blocked a power flush is probably not going to fix it. If it's a reasonably short and reasonably straight section with easy access to one end it may be possible to 'snake' it. In many cases the blocked section has to be cut out and replaced. If access is really difficult it may be better to bypass the blockage with a new section of pipe in parallel.

Compared with about a day's labour, chemicals, use of the equipment, etc. for a pressure flush, if you know where the block is, it may turn out cheaper to replace the blocked pipe anyway.

Yes agree and in my case it would have been much less labour intensive to have just replaced the pipe, but as my time was free I bought some small gauge wire and rodded the pipes. Took hours and hours but it worked. I then fitted a magnaclean to the flow and this stopped new debris going into the small bore pipe.

 

[jh2254]

Thanks Ric. All ideas are great ideas. Unfortunately the only reason I haven’t just cut my losses and repiped is all pipework is under oak floors that just can’t come up without having to be renewed. So looking for any options that might avoid this. Having said that, it’s a great idea. Thankyou

As my time was free I bought some small gauge wire and rodded the pipes. Took hours and hours (felt like weeks and weeks) but it worked eventually. I then fitted a magnaclean to the flow and this stopped new debris going into the small bore pipe.
What was your eventual solution?
Thanks.

 

[Devisham]

A BSRIA flush should take a number of days if followed correctly to guidance - pre flush - chemical clean/biocide wash - back flush/strainer cleans - dynamic flush - chemical rebalance - chem/bacti sampling etc. They should have been going through the system pipework legs in stages if isolations are present to ascertain where potential issues were to advise if remedials are needed.

If you used a water treatment specialist for the works it's a pretty poor show as they shouldnt have walked away after 2 hours.

 

[Lou]

(Just bumping a few older threads, they will drop off what is new soon)

Check Out Plumbing News!

 

[jh2254]

Ok thanks Lou. I had an email to check a reply to this thread ! Prompted me to say my central heating pipe work is still working well and the magnacleans are working well. No more blocked microbore pipes !