Potterton 80 NG intermittant problems - Plea for help !!!

[abbeyhouse]

Hi,

Thanks for taking your time to read my plea for help (it’s a bit long)!

My boiler a 12 year old Potterton Profile 80 NG seems to be playing around.

Just to put you in the picture here is my current set up (a novice description)

Boiler Potterton 80 NG
Santon PremierPlus PP170E Direct Unvented Hot Water Cylinder
Grundfos 15 60 water pump
20 radiators of various sizes and most have a TRV valves fitted
Independent thermostat in dining room (radiator in that room does not have a TRV fitted)
Most pipe work is 15mm – no micro bore.
System running pressure approx 2 bar

In the last few days I have been struggling with radiator temps throughout my home – and now intermittent main burner cut out resulting in lack of hot water and heating.

I’ll be honest I have no idea on what does what or how it does it – So I would be grateful for a to do check list to find out which way to go!

This is what I have done so far:-

Yesterday –

Turned off all radiators and one by one bled whole system forcing any air block around, eventually I did release some air in 2 of the upstairs radiators.
Opened all flow valves to full i.e. TRV number 5 and on 2 radiators fully open – closed return valves and opened ¾ turn.

Sat back and had a lovely balanced heat in the whole home with all radiators evenly heated. – Sorry forgot to say I also turned back flow valves to normal temp settings after roasting!

Today- Heating turned on this morning only to do an ok kind of job – probably around 17 degrees vice 21 set on thermostat. - Being still a little cold I placed the electronic timer on manual override and sat back waiting for heat –
To no real benefit – I noticed they went through a warming up and cooling down ceremony!

This evening – house radiators are warm and not like yesterday – I could barley place my hand upon.

Tonight I had very little hot water so confused I decided to watch the boiler –

I set the programmer to hot water only, watching I noticed the boiler fan cut in and after a couple of attempts light the pilot light then the main burner lit after a few more moments, the flow and return pipes were like warm. However after 8 minutes I noticed the main burner had cut out.

The pipes were warm but not hot – I checked the boiler thermometer and its set just below maximum.

Curious I reduced the boiler thermostat to 0 and then placed back to under max and after a few moments the fan cut in – pilot light lit and the main burner kicked back into action – think the burner had been out for about 3-4 mins.

Only a few min’s later we were back to square one ……

So I ran the hot water and it did feel up to temp so something must have been going on! – With this in mind I placed the central heating back – again the boiler kicked in after a couple of min's then low and behold the main burner cut out again!!!!

The flow pipe was hand holding hot and the return hand warming hot – if you know what I mean.

Just in case the automatic water valves were broken I set both to manual but still to no avail.

The boiler reset button on the bottom when pressed does kick start the main burner but only for a brief second during the pressing

So to put a conclusion on my problem I have a boiler that lights when it feels, luke warm (sometimes) radiators and hot water if I ask the boiler nicely!!!

Oh and another thing I noticed the pump does get rather hot – not that I know how hot it is suppose to be!

Any ideas greatly appreciated

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

call a gsr engineer,easier to diagnose when looking at the problem

 

[abbeyhouse]

Thanks – unfortunately, due to change in personal circumstance I can not currently afford for an engineer to pop around and was rather hoping someone may like to try and help - maybe using me as the eyes and ears? I'm not an imbecile just inexperienced with diagnostic reasoning relating to boiler operations, I see on this forum there has been many replies from people with experience to people with little that have led to a broken boiler system once again springing back to life - after all what are these forums for, if not spreading knowledge and help amongst the community

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

in all due respect abbeyhouse you may not be a imbecile,but your not a experienced gsr engineer,you may have many things at fault,pcb,fan,pump ,balancing,sludge,etc..etc if your skint ask bg how much a one off repair will cost or better still find a recommended gsr who knows his/her stuff after all if its on the boiler you could kill yourself and your loved ones trying to rectify the problem

 

[ecowarm]

what area you in? you could get someone to pop round from the forum for a reasonable cost

 

[abbeyhouse]

Thanks Gas Man and no disrespect was taken : and thank you Ecowarm (nice thought!) However surely there must be some kind of (universal?) "check list" or procedure that one can follow which may help identify a defect without compromising safety? Don't get me wrong, I have no interest in a bodged gas pipe repair Etc. However checking a water pump, pcb, incorrect voltage drop, defunct thermostat, gas valve failure Etc before the major expense of a gas safety engineer and their diagnostics- (hopefuly without replacing every possible part going), in my reasoning must be "worth a try". ?

After all If my car fails I don't run to the V Dub garage , I call upon the forum !!!!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

electrical testing then,tell us what detection means in relation to a boiler,and how would you test it? i am not trying to be clever but if you really know then you can reply quickly (no googleing)

 

[abbeyhouse]

Hmmm, Think we got off on the wrong foot Gas Man.... As previously mentioned , I'm not O fay with boiler operations, however I can be someones eyes and ears..... I have my multi- meter handy and would be willing to run through whatever tests you require me to undertake... Do you with have a service manual handy so I can follow your instructions and locate the correct componants? - I can just about remember my resistor colour coding bbroygbvgw but anything else is a mystery!

Thanks

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

and that's the point abbeyhouse,electric and gas are deadly even to pros like us on here please get some one in who is competent and wont rip you off go here Gas Safe Register | Ensure your gas engineer is registered with Gas Safe Register or get a good recommendation

 

[abbeyhouse]

Thank you Gas Man and I can see your side of thought .. However if we go back to the original forum post, and indeed back to the basics, would there be any thing that a person could "try" without jeopardising their family/home/income by turning the house into a ticking bomb? For example could it be a result of more air in pipes, damaged water pump, blown thermostat, broken pcb ( I see some pro's suggest this without implying a catastrophic failure of family life) !!

 

[Reg Man]

Dear Abbeyhouse. All of us on this forum try to be objective and helpful. Unfortunately we are not always able to give specific advice on some of the querys. This because every installation has its own characteristics. With the problem you describe, there could be 100 potential options for diagnosis of faults. I therefore recommend you employ the services of a qualified Gas Safe Registered engineer to visit and hopefuly they will be able to make a reasonable fault diagnosis on you installation.

 

[abbeyhouse]

Thanks Reg Man, but I think GasMans posts may have distorted the original question..... To place in another angle .... Where would YOU start to identify the 100 potential faults in a system? (I understand the law and I am fully aware that it is NOT illegal to repair my boiler myself - and would obviously employ a GSE if the boundry was to be crossed) .

 

[Reg Man]

You do not understand the law that well then. It is a legal requirement that any persons undertaking gas work, wether in there own home or otherwise , must be competent. (Relevant training qualification and experience) This does not mean gas safe registered unless you carry out this activity as a self employed or employed person. Having said that. Your problem may be to do with the water side of the gas central heating system, and therefore you can legaly do what ever you wish. In any event the problem you describe is not easy to diagnose without a compentent plumbing and heating engineer looking at the installation.

 

[shorticus]

I feel for you Abbeyhouse, these are indeed trying times and we are all feeling the pinch but I urge you to take both Gas Man's and Reg Man's advice, get a gsr tech in, seriously, aside from the legal side you don't want to be messing about in your boiler without the proper training and sorry if it sounds like a pop but it's not like your veedub

 

[tamz]

You probably (hopefully) won't get an answer to your question from any reg gas engineer on any forum far less a step by step walk through if they think it may involve working on the combustion side of the boiler.
You may think this is being somewhat of a closed shop regarding this information but it is for your own safety and more for our own conscience.
It would be easy to go through things with you but i cannot see what you are doing and i or others were to go through things and you did something we were not aware of it could lead to a situation developing which would put you or your family in danger.
We all appreciate times are hard but sorry.

Only advice i will offer is check the quality of your water and also your pump. Because it may seem to be running does not mean it is actually pumping to its full capacity

 

[Hester]

I have the same problem with main burner, pushed bottom of circuit board and seems to work, know that these boards have been known to fail after so many years, by the way my boiler is 11 years old!

 

[SueMax]

I too have a duff Potterton F50 Profile (albeit one with a "British Gas F2" badge on it). Installed by BG in autumn 2000.

Reading elsewhere over the weekend, I have established that with the fan cycling on and off, it is likely that the problems with my boiler lie with the Control Box. I have pump when there is demand, then fan starts, but no pilot and no main burner. My problem is more fundamental, however!! I cannot shift the screw which secures the plastic tray which sits below the boiler with the control gear in it. Anyone any tips on how to get a purchase on that screw? Mine seems to have a small square hole in it rather than a crosshead or a slot head. Anyone got any tips on how to loosen and remove it? Mine is stuck fast.