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Discuss Plumber has caused leaks throughout the house in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

Why don’t ask your insurance provider what they recommend about paying the plumber and getting his insurance details etc?
 
Why don’t ask your insurance provider what they recommend about paying the plumber and getting his insurance details etc?
I was planning to do that. He's called and messaged for the money. I'm already £380 down on the insurance excess. And of the insurance company deem the damage to each room separate then it will be £380 per room.
 
Issue him with an invoice for the damage he has caused minus his fee.put it in writing that you will gladly pay his fee once he has rectified the damage he had caused. I would not give him a penny until you have your property back the same as it was before he started.
I would gladly pay his fee if he puts the damage right. Or contacts his insurance. I'm getting zero help from him. All he is saying that the filling loop caused the problem and all the damage to my house is not his problem. You cant reason with people like that at all
 
My advice is that this will get worse before if gets better (financially).
I would not advise paying the plumber at all.
I would give all the plumbers details to your insurance company and let them pursue the claim against him, it takes time.
I would get confirmation from the insurance company in writing that they are going to pursue the plumber for all costs including your excess(es)
If the plumber pursues payment, you may refer them to your insurance company who are handling the case.
You are quite within your rights to be made whole at no cost to yourself.
The plumber should pay for all damage and clean up.

Reasons are: Water damage caused by opening up the heating system:
1. Water not isolated either at the filling loop or mains incoming.
2. Bleed valves left open
3. TRV's used as stop ends (totally un-acceptable)
4. Drain valves assumed shut off, rather than left open with pipe to drain.

It is true that maybe in our own home we may take short cuts like leaving TRVs open, relying on filling loop, but i have only ever done this on-site when i am the only one there and i would not leave like that, also i always leave the drain lines open until i am finished with any modifications (this is mainly due to deal with any shifting water.

Hope it all works out
 
I would want to have a good look at the filling loop and lets see if it is really passing, I bet he says hes thrown it away.
Phil you are correct, I've asked for the old filling loop and he said he has thrown it away. When I asked, it was literally a few hours are he removed and replaced the filling loop. I said I needed it as the insurance company has asked for it. Which they have
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My advice is that this will get worse before if gets better (financially).
I would not advise paying the plumber at all.
I would give all the plumbers details to your insurance company and let them pursue the claim against him, it takes time.
I would get confirmation from the insurance company in writing that they are going to pursue the plumber for all costs including your excess(es)
If the plumber pursues payment, you may refer them to your insurance company who are handling the case.
You are quite within your rights to be made whole at no cost to yourself.
The plumber should pay for all damage and clean up.

Reasons are: Water damage caused by opening up the heating system:
1. Water not isolated either at the filling loop or mains incoming.
2. Bleed valves left open
3. TRV's used as stop ends (totally un-acceptable)
4. Drain valves assumed shut off, rather than left open with pipe to drain.

It is true that maybe in our own home we may take short cuts like leaving TRVs open, relying on filling loop, but i have only ever done this on-site when i am the only one there and i would not leave like that, also i always leave the drain lines open until i am finished with any modifications (this is mainly due to deal with any shifting water.

Hope it all works out
Thank you bacon_sandwich all of your information was extremely helpful. I'm no plumber, but when he came back because of the flooding and he started blaming the filling loop that when I question him about how he turned the filling loop off. All he said was I put my head in the airing cupboard saw that the filling hose was attached but turned off. "So I just left it like that" I said shouldn't you have capped off etc to ensure the system wasn't letting by and filling up. He said no. Completely understand if your "drain pipe" going outside is attached all day and your completing the works in 1 day and your present at the property. He left the house at around 2pm ish. Left bleed valve's open, trvs closed but not open. Actually I found one or 2 that were open a little. And obviously left the filling loop attached and didn't remove it and cap. Heating wasn't required over night and it was his choice to leave at 2 and come back the next day. Had made the system safe by capping etc or completing the works in one day etc. We wouldn't be in this situation. Regarding insurance etc I do intend to pass his details over to the insurance company as they have already requested this information
 
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Phil you are correct, I've asked for the old filling loop and he said he has thrown it away. When I asked, it was literally a few hours are he removed and replaced the filling loop. I said I needed it as the insurance company has asked for it. Which they have
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Thank you bacon_sandwich all of your information was extremely helpful. I'm no plumber, but when he came back because of the flooding and he started blaming the filling loop that when I question him about how he turned the filling loop off. All he said was I put my head in the airing cupboard saw that the filling hose was attached but turned off. "So I just left it like that" I said shouldn't you have capped off etc to ensure the system wasn't letting by and filling up. He said no. Completely understand if your "drain pipe" going outside is attached all day and your completing the works in 1 day and your present at the property. He left the house at around 2pm ish. Left bleed valve's open, trvs closed but not open. Actually I found one or 2 that were open a little. And obviously left the filling loop attached and didn't remove it and cap. Heating wasn't required over night and it was his choice to leave at 2 and come back the next day. Had made the system safe by capping etc or completing the works in one day etc. We wouldn't be in this situation. Regarding insurance etc I do intend to pass his details over to the insurance company as they have already requested this information
I have read all this post carefully and watched it unfold. I have been in this industry since 1981 and have employed many engineers and been responsible for 4/6 thousand systems of all sorts. Maybe more
My View.
1. Do not pay the contractor at all , inform him directly with your reasons. Ask him to reply.
2. Write a detailed diary inc. dates and times of this whole sorry episode
3. Put it into the hands of professionals ...esp. your insurance co.
4. Engage a good heating engineering outfit to a. check your system over
b. produce a report/survey
I think if this sits right with you expect nothing from this Trumpton plumber and ask nothing from him
litigation leaves everybody ...even the innocent with dirty hands...my Mrs is a (nice) barrister and always suggests this way if possible. However if this 'plumber' has assets for you to claim on go in high
and get a really aggressive legal usually with a scruffy high st office to open upon him. centralheatking
 
I have read all this post carefully and watched it unfold. I have been in this industry since 1981 and have employed many engineers and been responsible for 4/6 thousand systems of all sorts. Maybe more
My View.
1. Do not pay the contractor at all , inform him directly with your reasons. Ask him to reply.
2. Write a detailed diary inc. dates and times of this whole sorry episode
3. Put it into the hands of professionals ...esp. your insurance co.
4. Engage a good heating engineering outfit to a. check your system over
b. produce a report/survey
I think if this sits right with you expect nothing from this Trumpton plumber and ask nothing from him
litigation leaves everybody ...even the innocent with dirty hands...my Mrs is a (nice) barrister and always suggests this way if possible. However if this 'plumber' has assets for you to claim on go in high
and get a really aggressive legal usually with a scruffy high st office to open upon him. centralheatking
Hello centralheatking
Thank you for help and information. I have already instructed my insurance company. They have asked for all his information and they have already said that they would open a case up with him / his insurance company to get money back that the insurance claim costs
 
So my insurance have approved my claim which is one less headache which is good. Plumber has sent an invoice over, he's push the price up from £250 to £270 on the invoice. I told the plumber that I am passing the invoice over to my insurance company. I believe once the insurance claim has been sorted, they will try to recover the claim through his insurance company. Check a trade shows he has 2 million liability insurance. Invoice wise I'm still struggling to know what to do....do I pay? If my insurance recover the loses through his insurance company I will get my £380 excess back. I feel if I get my excess back then i definitely should pay his bill. But only once I get my excess back. Dose this sound unreasonable? At the moment I'm left with damage to my home, £380 excess. So I can't justify paying his invoice at the moment.
 
I wouldn’t not until it’s all sorted and you get your money back from his insurance then you pay
 
I wouldn’t not until it’s all sorted and you get your money back from his insurance then you pay
That's what I was thinking, once everything is resolved house wise and I have my insurance excess back then of course I'd pay the invoice. Should he be pushing the invoice up? Seems strange
 
That's what I was thinking, once everything is resolved house wise and I have my insurance excess back then of course I'd pay the invoice. Should he be pushing the invoice up? Seems strange
You are correct, let him know that his invoice will be settled after the insurance has been straightened out. If you pay him it might look like you are satisfied with his work. Refer him to your insurance company ...centralheatking
 
You are correct, let him know that his invoice will be settled after the insurance has been straightened out. If you pay him it might look like you are satisfied with his work. Refer him to your insurance company ...centralheatking
That's also what I thought, if I pay I'm almost saying thank you for your good work oh and the leak, here's your invoice paid in full. But I agree paying shows that I'm satisfied with the works
 
Yes they asked for the invoice he sent over. Which I forwarded over to them. Is that the correct thing to do?

Yep

If he calls again tell him it’s in the hands of the insurance and there In contact With his
 
Yep

If he calls again tell him it’s in the hands of the insurance and there In contact With his
Thank you, I feel like a little grass. But as a business owner (him) he can't behave in this manner. You cant flood someone's house and cause leaks....then ask for payment as if all is fine. I can't believe the front he has. I'd be so embarrassed if I did this. Especially only being established on companies house for 3 months.
 
Well he is maintaining it was not his fault, so of course he would be expecting payment for all his good works. However you hold him responsible for flooding the house which, it is reasonable , not to pay for such a poor service. There in lies the dispute. The only issue i can see is if your insurance company decide not to pursue his insurance company for the loss, however you can still deal with this outside of the insurance process. Do not pay, is my advice, its not a good sign
 
Thank you, I feel like a little grass. But as a business owner (him) he can't behave in this manner. You cant flood someone's house and cause leaks....then ask for payment as if all is fine. I can't believe the front he has. I'd be so embarrassed if I did this. Especially only being established on companies house for 3 months.
Ok Reading1986 now is the time to sit back ...you have done all that is required..things are in hand with experts..leave them to it. As above my wife is a barrister of many years experience you must now leave it ...you have been wronged but never let it take over..she knows these things. chking
 
Ok Reading1986 now is the time to sit back ...you have done all that is required..things are in hand with experts..leave them to it. As above my wife is a barrister of many years experience you must now leave it ...you have been wronged but never let it take over..she knows these things. chking
So I'm insurance company called him and all is currently going through. I do believe my insurance company will try to recover the costs once the insurance claim has gone through. He messaged me today to ask for payment again. He told me that my insurance company told me to pay him. Called the insurance company to check this out it's completely untrue. All they was to ascertain whether is was the person that worked on the system that shortly then leaked. So I called the plumber and said very politely that this is untrue and the lose adjuster was simply gathering information regarding the claim. He then said when are you paying me. I said at the moment until the claim is fully resolved and I have got my £380 back. Then I will pay your invoice in full. I also ask if this invoice was for one days labour which I said it was. Then I politely said but you only did 4 hours. He then said ok give me £180 cash today. This guy is literally unbelievable. So by the fact he went out from £270 to £180 he knows he's done wrong and accepted that he only did 4 hours. All I did was mentioned is real working time on my house and he dropped it straight away. He then said can I have the £180 today I said once the insurance has fully paid and I have recovered by loses i.e excess. Really don't no what do here. Do I inform my insurance company about him directly as up to now only the lose adjuster who is a separate company is aware of who he and his company are?
 
yes tell your insurance company directly, tell them he is putting you under undue pressure. A call to trading standards would no go amiss on identical lines. He comes over as a chancer with no feeling of guilt. Do not pay him tell him not to contact you again. If he persists bullying you have a word with your local police. Centralheatking
 
Only contact the plumber in written form where possible and take care in what you write. Basically you want the plumber to state all the bull and show his hand.
Emails and even text messages are also verification of communications (if they get responses), so do keep them.
Pay the plumber nothing and say in any correspondence to him that your insurance has advised you they are dealing with the plumber together hopefully with his insurance about your claim for damages to your property.
 
I get the feeling you are being 'ridden' by the insurance company - 5 claims and 5 excesses - on 1 property and one heating system.
No Judge would accept that in Court - You would need an individual insurance policy on every room of your house for that to take effect.

The Plumber: - all correspondence to be via email from now on.
Get him to email you a detailed 'scope of works' on the invoice.

If it is a Regulation that the filling loop is to be disconnected from the heating system then question him after the detailed invoice has been sent through.

If the detailed invoice doesn't satisfy you, keep questioning him until there is something that he admits to that doesn't comply with the Regulations and you will have him.
Try to get him to accept you original offer of 50% and put it against the Insurance Claim - due to being under duress.
 
I get the feeling you are being 'ridden' by the insurance company - 5 claims and 5 excesses - on 1 property and one heating system.
No Judge would accept that in Court - You would need an individual insurance policy on every room of your house for that to take effect.

The Plumber: - all correspondence to be via email from now on.
Get him to email you a detailed 'scope of works' on the invoice.

If it is a Regulation that the filling loop is to be disconnected from the heating system then question him after the detailed invoice has been sent through.

If the detailed invoice doesn't satisfy you, keep questioning him until there is something that he admits to that doesn't comply with the Regulations and you will have him.
Try to get him to accept you original offer of 50% and put it against the Insurance Claim - due to being under duress.
Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated
 
Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated
How dreadfull to be put under such pressure like that, I feel ashamed on behalf of our trade.
I certainly would have held out but peace of mind is paramount and as you say £180 as a kiss off to this terd of the first order will relax you... regards centralheatking
 
Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated

Why did you pay the plumber any money? What pressure did he put on you?
He did a job for you and as a direct result of that it seems your house got flooded from open valves. I see no reason for any payment for such work to the plumber, but clearly you need compensation for all the damage.
The new filling loop work second job is different and that is fair enough for payment.
Now that you have paid some money looks like you were at least partly satisfied with the plumbers work. Were you? I would guess not.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the plumber knew it was to his advantage.
I wouldn’t take pressure from anyone
 
How dreadfull to be put under such pressure like that, I feel ashamed on behalf of our trade.
I certainly would have held out but peace of mind is paramount and as you say £180 as a kiss off to this terd of the first order will relax you... regards centralheatking
Honestly sounds very odd but the peace of mind I have now, from paying his bill or re agreed bill. It's one less worry. While I won't get that back. I have my claim going through, and they have confirmed they will be recovering all costs from his insurance company. But by paying him my line of communication between me and him thankfully has gone. Honestly horrible person to deal with. Extremely aggressive. Still to this day blaming the mains side filling loop valve. Had closed the system side as well, removed the filling hose and capped. Also capped open ends and closed bleed valve's.....all of this wouldn't have happened. I done a fair amount of investigation of my own into how he should of isolated the system correctly etc. I actually think I could have done a better and more professional job
 
Your first post asked should you pay the plumber. Advice given here was generally do not pay him.
If your story was correct, it was clear circumstances where you do not need to pay your plumber for the first job.
You employed a supposed professional but got unprofessional work - in fact incorrect and a very risky procedure done, which the plumber is fully liable.
Advice to inform plumber it was the insurances dealing with all monies was good advice
 
I think you’ve done the wrong thing but let’s hope everything is ok regarding the claim as he can say Everything was fine as you’ve paid the bill

I hope the best for you
 
Your first post asked should you pay the plumber. Advice given here was generally do not pay him.
If your story was correct, it was clear circumstances where you do not need to pay your plumber for the first job.
You employed a supposed professional but got unprofessional work - in fact incorrect and a very risky procedure done, which the plumber is fully liable.
Advice to inform plumber it was the insurances dealing with all monies was good advice
My story is 100% correct. He was messaging every other day asking for the invoice to be paid. The filling loop was not the issue at all. I paid to get him off case. I am no where near satisfied with his work or his conduct. He got aggressive on the phone. I have a 2 week old baby and frankly I have far more important things to worry about than a planet demanding money for a completely bad job. Capping end and capping the filling loop seems to be a standard procedure. He used the filling loop as an excuse to not hold him self negligible
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I think you’ve done the wrong thing but let’s hope everything is ok regarding the claim as he can say Everything was fine as you’ve paid the bill

I hope the best for you
I know I've done the wrong thing completely. Regarding the claim me paying will not affect my claim or my insurance company recovering the money from insurance company
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Why did you pay the plumber any money? What pressure did he put on you?
He did a job for you and as a direct result of that it seems your house got flooded from open valves. I see no reason for any payment for such work to the plumber, but clearly you need compensation for all the damage.
The new filling loop work second job is different and that is fair enough for payment.
Now that you have paid some money looks like you were at least partly satisfied with the plumbers work. Were you? I would guess not.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the plumber knew it was to his advantage.
I wouldn’t take pressure from anyone
He was messaging every other day asking for money, even though every other day I told him I will pay your invoice once my home has been put back to the condition it was on before he entered my home. May look like I'm a little bit satisfied...but I'm not at all I've got a big claim going through. The stress and the inconvenience and him messaging and calling for the money. I just paid to get rid of him. The filling loop I'm pretty sure wasn't faulty. For one he didn't close the system side valve. So how dose that make it faulty. Ok the mains side let by a little. Capp it and replace a £10 valve....no problem. He used the filling loop as an excuse for flooding my home.
 
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Can't believe that this has taken 66 posts where as it was really dealt with in the first few replies.
Well I am sorry, people and my self were posting because they are interested maybe even concern that trades are conducting themselves in this manner.
 

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