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SJB060685

SJB060685

Can I just say Reading1986 that I genuinely feel for you and the trauma you've suffered but I should point out that more often than not tradesmen you find on these search sites aren't that good, a good tradesmen doesn't need to advertise, it's all through word of mouth.
 
OP
R

Reading1986

Can I just say Reading1986 that I genuinely feel for you and the trauma you've suffered but I should point out that more often than not tradesmen you find on these search sites aren't that good, a good tradesmen doesn't need to advertise, it's all through word of mouth.
Funny you say that I was recommended him from a friend. So he was found via word of mouth. But I generally agree with you. I never use for example check a trade to find a tradesmen. Suppose I've just been really really unlucky with this recommendation
 
S

Spectric

Hi all

Any decent tradesman would want to deliver quality work and total customer satisfaction and never leave a job in such a way as it could cause flooding. It is not hard to ensure a system is either drained and cannot refill or is filled and any unfinished sections are sealed of / caped.

This reminds me of the house I brought some years back, the owner moved out and left it without any heating and it froze bursting several pipes. I came along for a viewing and apart from the obvious water damage there was no water supply in the utility or main bathroom. On investigation the plumber had just cut the burst pipes and capped them so the rest still worked. So the seller got the plumbers back to resolve and they could not fix without damage to the bathroom and making a hole in a wall to access above the utility room so I agreed to forget the utility but fix the bathroom and adjust the house price accordingly. Two weeks later I came back for another viewing before signing on the dotted line and there was water leaking everywhere. This time I found two endfeeds that had been fluxed and not soldered, several loose compression fittings one which had the olive missing and on one run of pipe there was 3 isolation valves and 4 couplings in a two metre length!!! Plumbers turned up and repaired what they could, they were about to leave when I asked why there were not going to pressure test the system for leaks and they replied they did not currently have one that worked and when questioned about the number of fittings used they said it was there trainee who had no tube left so connected up the offcuts. I am now semi retired but every job I did I left knowing I had done a job that I could be proud of and happy to put my name to, this attitude seems to be slipping away and the cowboys are giving everyone a bad name.
 
R

Ric2013

Plumber
Can I just say Reading1986 that I genuinely feel for you and the trauma you've suffered but I should point out that more often than not tradesmen you find on these search sites aren't that good, a good tradesmen doesn't need to advertise, it's all through word of mouth.
So if I have I customers who say they are happy (they even come back for further works) and even have some recommendations, why wasn't I getting enough work without advertising? My theory is that I'm not really interested in the big jobs (I'm small and skinny and so's my van) and I'm quite happy with repairs and improvements plus I don't do gas, so I don't have the repeat custom of annual checks and servicing. I was planning on advertising (then shi* happened and I ended up being stuck abroad).

I don't think, however, that I'm not good at what I do. (I'm actually very self critical, but then I compare myself with the competition and realise I'm well above average). I don't think think we should write off plumbers who advertise just because they advertise. Making a name for yourself takes significant time, and you may need to make a living before you naturally develop the contacts you need to get enough work by word of mouth.
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they were about to leave when I asked why there were not going to pressure test the system for leaks and they replied they did not currently have one that worked
Technically correct - it would make sense to pressure test. However, in practice, a very slight weep will often not show in a standard water pressure test and very customers are prepared to pay the extra time a pressure test would take. Obviously it depends on the circustances, but in repair and modification work, a visual inspection is often far more useful than a pressure test. I can therefore understand why a minority of plumbers own pressure testers: they aren't actually very often brought into play. Obviously in your case, there was presumably hidden pipework and a pressure test would have made sense and been something you would have wanted to pay for. To be fair, a reasonably good test could have been made using just the mains pressure.
 
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S

Spectric

Hi there

I would have accepted a slight weep but they had produced an indoor water feature! They did not even inspect their work and knowing the state of the pipework I would have pressure tested just to prove that there were no more leaks.

On a positive note their shody work meant I got a good reduction in the price of the house and have now replaced all the pipework and done it properly. In the days of when lead solder was the norm I rarely pressure tested because I never had any problems but still not convinced with lead free.
 
Pickwickpick

Pickwickpick

Plumber
Gas Engineer
So if I have I customers who say they are happy (they even come back for further works) and even have some recommendations, why wasn't I getting enough work without advertising? My theory is that I'm not really interested in the big jobs (I'm small and skinny and so's my van) and I'm quite happy with repairs and improvements plus I don't do gas, so I don't have the repeat custom of annual checks and servicing. I was planning on advertising (then shi* happened and I ended up being stuck abroad).

I don't think, however, that I'm not good at what I do. (I'm actually very self critical, but then I compare myself with the competition and realise I'm well above average). I don't think think we should write off plumbers who advertise just because they advertise. Making a name for yourself takes significant time, and you may need to make a living before you naturally develop the contacts you need to get enough work by word of mouth.
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Totally agree, every good plumber that doesn't need to advertise had to start somewhere and that will have involved advertising of some shape or form, unless they were e.g. an apprentis and took over the business with its pre existing customers. Also as much as word of mouth recommendations are best, its still not a guarantee, just the other week I was fixing a mess left behind by a plumber that had been recommended by one of the customer's neighbours.

I've had to move my work from London back to Birmingham due to Covid as can't stay in the house I used to during the week. It all happened with very little notice so had to use one of the dreaded websites to drum up work while I build up word of mouth. If you focus on smaller jobs (as I'm also doing at the moment) as you say its a lot harder to reliably fill your week up without some form of advertising.
 
N

Nwalky

Hello

I thought I'd post a post.

I am currently under going a full re dec of the whole house, new flooring, skirting, architrave window boards and nice new rads.

Plumber came to fit the new rads, drained down the system. To begin the work the next day.

I had a call from the kitchen floor tilers to say there was a leak coming into the lounge ceiling / window reveal. Ruined the reveal. Needs plastering or maybe replacing

I called the plumber and he came back round to check straight away. I wasn't in at time and made my way back home straight away. Water had come in from the above bedrooms and into the lounge reveal. I got home and checked the living room out. And around the whole house. Checked everywhere. Plumber had left by the time I got there.

The next day the kitchen tilers rang again to say there is water coming coming through the kitchen ceiling ( alot of it) all over the kitchen floor. Wrecked the new kitchen plinths. Potentially the kitchen floor grout. All the other rooms have had ply laid down ready for amitco flooring. The ply had had a fair amount of water over it. Ensuite flooded. Landing carpet completely soaked around the rad area. So I've had to open an insurance claim.

The plumber is saying that both valves. The heating filling loop were letting water by. So even thou he had drained the system it was letting water by and filling the system up.

Question should he have discovered that the "valves" for the heating filling loop were at "fault" when draining the system. Or is this completely avoidable.

Now left with a huge amount of unnecessary damage. Plumber is demanding a days wage when was only there from 9 to 2pm. He's replaced the 2 valves on the filling loop as he said they were at fault. Also bearing in mind I had a rad capped off month before and some work a month before that. So the system has been drained down twice fully successfully without any issues...oh this was done by a different plumber. Who I would normally use. But was unfortunately to busy with his schedule to fit me on for this rad work.

So has the plumber been incompetent and not checking the system correctly and making sure it's draining down correctly, also should he have had detected these issues when draining down the system, therefore avoiding all of these issues I now have / or should he have detected the issues on his second visit when I called to say i had a leak in the lounge from the rad pipes above.


Should I pay or not...would really like some advice. Never had this much damage done or any after a trades man has been in.
To be fair, we had a very similar experience recently where we had drained an unvented heating system. 2 days later we got a call to say that water had came through the ceiling.

Dont get me wrong, we were maybe a bit more complacent than normal because the house was a gut out and getting completely redone. If the house was in such a state that it was getting tiled or decorated then we would have blanked valves etc.

What happened in our circumstance was the gate valve at the F&E tank was old and passing ever so slightly, so even though we drained it at the MT cock outside, it was passing so slowly that we wouldn't have even known.

I always like to give the benefit of the doubt and you could argue that the system having been drained down recently could have affected the old valve at the tank and it was then starting to pass but at the same time if the house was in such a condition that water damage would be catastrophic with regards finishing then more precautions should have been taken.

If it were me and I had caused damaged to a finished house I dont think I would have the brass balls to then demand that I be paid for the shift that I spent there. I think I would just take the hit, apologise and then the customer can at least use the money I was to get to pay towards any remedial work.

I think I've convinced myself actually, the guy made an arse of it, end of
 
bear

bear

I came upon this once on a new build flat. The plumber was at fault (not me btw!!). 3 flats and this was the top one. He fitted the boiler etc, pressurised the central heating, shut it off then went home. The next day he would pipe the blow off (combi boiler). Unfortunately he NEVER shut off the filling loop properly so the heating pressurised and kept going until 3 bar, at that point the blow off opened and trickled water ALL night in that flat. Soaked the floor of that flat, the ceiling and floor of the flat below and the ceiling of the ground floor flat. The bottom flats were getting handed over in 1 weeks time!!! 🤣🤣 He should have disconnected the filling loop (water bylaw) and capped the filling loop and or had the blowoff connected 1st.
The only thing I can’t understand is if the filling loop Valve was passing, why didn't the excess water go out the blow off? Unless it’s a tun dish that couldn’t take it but it should.
 
A

Agile

Agile Services
This has all been very interesting to read all the opinions.

But I did expect a closing posting from Reading1986 saying if and how it has been resolved.

Although I do little work on radiator systems ( specialising in boiler repairs ), I have to say that if I was confident that I had fully drained the system and it needed further work the next day then it would be possible that I would not waste time capping off rad valves etc. or closing bleed screws on rads which were to be removed the next day.

But the ESSENTIAL work that any competent person would always do is to remove the filling loop and cap off the inlet valve. That would ensure that the system could never be pressurised without the use of tools.

As for testing systems, on a house where I was fitting a new boiler I needed to remove about 8 m of 15mm copper gas pipe. On this length there were TWO fluxed but UNSOLDERED joints that had lasted through 15 years of occasional gas leakage tests!
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Reviews on some of the Find a Tradesman sites need to be taken with caution.

A lady I knew had a clutch replaced but they put a rotation locking washer in backwards and within days the car would not start when hot. ( The flywheel just turned on the shaft! )

When I looked at reviews on this "Clutch" place I saw that virtually ALL the good reviews were for very simple jobs like replacing clutch cables.

The test for any trade is if they can do the more difficult jobs as well as easy ones!
 
B

Ben-gee

Esteemed
Plumber
I would say that it’s more important that they stick to the easy ones if that’s what they can do - nothing wrong with that.
It’s when people are out of their depth that most trouble occurs..
 
A

Agile

Agile Services
I would say that it’s more important that they stick to the easy ones if that’s what they can do - nothing wrong with that.
It’s when people are out of their depth that most trouble occurs..

It seems to be human nature to work up to the next level above what people can do competently!
 

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