Not easy to explain

[secret squirrel]

I went to a customer today and the request was this.

The customer is building a loft extension and wants an en-suite. He is doing all the work himself and just wants some help with the plumbing. (I think he'll do this himself once he has the solution, but I'm interested anyway).

He does not want a soil pipe running up the outside of the dormer because it looks horrible.

The solution (I think) is from his current bathroom, plumb in an internal stack, the current toilet, bath, basin can be plumbed into this or the remaining outside stack?

OR, run an internal stack into the loft conversion then out through the tiles (between the conversion and roof), although if I do this you will still see the stack.

OR take the existing stack through the bathroom (old) ceiling with a couple of joints. This is my least favorite. The customer has done this already with 2x 45 bends but do you want to be sitting in the bath as someone above you is flushing the toilet?

With an internal stack, I am assuming it cannot be boxed in as it needs good air flow.

All the making good will be done by the customer, all I have to do is point where I need holes and he will drill them etc.

Any points of view are welcomed and pit falls. Please, don't get to technical, pretend your typing to a child.......(you won't be far off)

 

[newbie1]

i wouldnt bother sounds like he wants you to figure it out then say thks i will think about it and do it himself

 

[secret squirrel]

I totally agree with you, apparently he's got all other trades but needs a plumber. He's doing another loft conversion in a couple of weeks which if I do a good job blah blah blah.

However, I am interested in the concept of this. Personally I'd have the soil pipe going up the outside but I would appreciate your comments on my suggestion; purely for my own knowledge.

Secondly, I take it you wouldn't even phone him back?

 

[justlead1]

Hi. Use 75 mm soil pipe above highest wc branch this may allow you to run it between and parallel with the common rafters and vent through roof 1 m above any opening window. Good Luck

 

[secret squirrel]

Thanks for that, what about a saniflow, although a little more expensive this also seem a solution?

When I suggested this I was told it'd adding £300 to the job..... I'm almost sure he will do it all himself but I may have this problem with a proper customer.

Thanks

 

[newbie1]

saniflow would be good option i def think the guy is a timewaster though and tbh unless you need him i would walk away

 

[Bernie2]

A Saniflow seems so obvious why is anything else considered?

Although speaking for myself, I don't like macerators, but in circumstance like this, it seems the easiest option.

I would also forget the Plumbing and look at the Fire Safety aspects and any other controls that may dictate what you can do before you do it.

 

[secret squirrel]

Thank you all, I will speak to building regs on Monday, I think saniflow all the way. The more I look at them the more sense it makes.

Just to broaden my question, if he hasn't got planning permission etc. failed to comply with building regs. I install a saniflow on this project will I be liable for anything? (presuming, I've installed as per manufacturers inst and best practise)

Or as a plumber acting on the customer's behalf is it safe to assume the customer has all relevant documentation and authorities?

 

[Bernie2]

Err!

No your the expert in law so its down to you. The job gets more complicated everyday. But it makes sense doesn't it?

Even if your given a set of architects drawings (Architects are overall responsible if they have done the drawings, because he or she is the one telling you what to do) with obvious faults, you are required to bring to light any Plumbing faults, if you spot them and can prove they are faults of course.

Even if an architect does do drawings and you follow them, if they don't work, you may get some of the blame because you would be classed as an expert in the field, therefore you either did not know what you where doing, so not the expert you said you where or you did know what your doing and negated your contract responsibilities.

Its a case of quoting Regs like a lawyer.

Incidentally architects drawings usually say, all work should conform to what ever BS it is and all sizes should be checked on site. That nicely puts a big load of the responsibility on the Plumbing contractor.

But hey! That is Plumbing!

Being fair to architects though, they do think they are employing experts and so its fair to say they should expect them to know what they are doing.

And they can't measure exactly, as in practical terms there are probably to many variables to get all structural measurement correct to with an inch or two.

Thats why its always handy to keep up to date Regs.

 

[secret squirrel]

Thanks Bernie,

I thought that'd be the case, the fact that this customer has basically built the loft conversion in 2 days makes me nervous.

At least now I know that a saniflow is the best way to go for the next customer.

 

[Bernie2]

Hi! Squirrel I am not surprised your nervous, it requires planing permission and to get that he should have sent in drawings to be approved by the planing office. Which basically means the Plumbing plans should have been drawn up at the same time. I would go very careful and make sure you don't put your name to anything you think might be wrong.

Incidentally most architects I find, usually like you to mention anything wrong with their drawings, it shows your looking after their interests as well as your own.
So long as you don't make them look daft for not knowing Plumbing things.
Its more how you approach them than what you say.

The thing is of course to make sure you can produce evidence out of the Regs, BS or manufacturers instructions to back up what you say. If you can back it up, the architect will probably not only want you back on his jobs, but will also tell his mates.

But please don't say anything if you can't or your unsure until you have read it up first.

And once word gets around in the right places!!!

Good Fortune !