No drain off tap on hot water cylinder...new cylinder required?

[psychopomp1]

Hi,
A few days ago I was getting a tiny water leak on my Range Tribune HE hot water cylinder, i called a plumber, he ascertained the immersion heater was faulty (corroded) and needed to be replaced. He told me afterwards there's no drain off tap on the cylinder so he pulled the immersion coil out which caused the water to gush out, come through the ceiling and nearly flood the kitchen downstairs. The plumbing company have agreed to fix the damage to my property at their own cost. In the end they managed to get a new immersion heater installed.

My question is, to stop this happening again do i need to ensure i have a drain off tap fitted to the cylinder/pipework and is my only option to buy a new cylinder? The cylinder was installed By Barratts homes when i bought the house in Nov 2008, obviously Barratts don't want to know now (only offer a 2 year warranty). NHBC 10 year warranty won't cover this as water cylinder is classed as a fitting/fixture. Perhaps if my plumbing knowledge was more than zilch then i would have noticed this far sooner, so need to know what are my options now.
Thanks

 

[steadyon]

As you may already know, only those holding a "G3" qualification are allowed to work on unvented cylinders. If the person who just took out the immersion heater was G3 qualified, it doesn't say much for the qualification.

There should be a drain off valve fitted where the cold feed enters the bottom of the tank. However, these quite often seize up and prove useless.

Once again - only G3 qualified people are allowed to work on unvented cylinders, which should be serviced annually.

 

[Riley]

There are any number of better ways they could've done that and live was right at the bottom of the list. There are self tapping drain offs to get you drained in the first instance then replace and fit a proper one

 

[quality]

Nobody with any idea of what they are doing would attempt to replace the immersion in that cylinder live

 

[Riley]

So obviously non-G3 then

 

[townfanjon]

I am sorry he is an idiot . Barratts bought the Tribunes but their site plumbers at the time want shafting for not fitting drain offs, no doubt all your development wont have any fitted .

Next time the cylinder is drained is when one should be fitted

Out of interest where are you ?

 

[Unregistered]

Thanks for the replies. I am in Inverness and the plumber was a fella called Mick from Korrie's. I will look at getting a drain off valve fitted next time the cylinder is drained.

Re: payment,Korrie haven't sent the invoice yet but how much should i pay them for the so called 'work' they carried out? I'm thinking perhaps i should just pay for the immersion heater part only?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

im sorry to say no prices will be given but you can ask advice once you receive a figure to see if its about right

 

[plumben]

He's a brave man for pulling that Emerson live with those electrics right under Neath or maybe just a fool, surely shutting the main and opening the prv to drop the level the hose down the top union would of been the sensible option

 

[plumben]

Thanks for the replies. I am in Inverness and the plumber was a fella called Mick from Korrie's. I will look at getting a drain off valve fitted next time the cylinder is drained.

Re: payment,Korrie haven't sent the invoice yet but how much should i pay them for the so called 'work' they carried out? I'm thinking perhaps i should just pay for the immersion heater part only?

As above we dont give prices out, But if they've agreed to fix all the water damage then i'd pay in full if/once they complete all works and your happy, is that cylinder on chipboard flooring?

 

[psychopomp1]

im sorry to say no prices will be given but you can ask advice once you receive a figure to see if its about right

No worries. Sorry i forgot to login when posting a few mins ago...didn't know you could post without registering!!

 

[psychopomp1]

He's a brave man for pulling that Emerson live with those electrics right under Neath or maybe just a fool, surely shutting the main and opening the prv to drop the level the hose down the top union would of been the sensible option

Well he got soaked in hot water so at least that's some consolation :hurray:

 

[Old Account]

Hi,
A few days ago I was getting a tiny water leak on my Range Tribune HE hot water cylinder, i called a plumber, he ascertained the immersion heater was faulty (corroded) and needed to be replaced. He told me afterwards there's no drain off tap on the cylinder so he pulled the immersion coil out which caused the water to gush out, come through the ceiling and nearly flood the kitchen downstairs. The plumbing company have agreed to fix the damage to my property at their own cost. In the end they managed to get a new immersion heater installed.

My question is, to stop this happening again do i need to ensure i have a drain off tap fitted to the cylinder/pipework and is my only option to buy a new cylinder? The cylinder was installed By Barratts homes when i bought the house in Nov 2008, obviously Barratts don't want to know now (only offer a 2 year warranty). NHBC 10 year warranty won't cover this as water cylinder is classed as a fitting/fixture. Perhaps if my plumbing knowledge was more than zilch then i would have noticed this far sooner, so need to know what are my options now.
Thanks

Wondering if the guy burned himself with roasting hot water ... Can imagine that's must have been a real shock for him

 

[Best]

He must be Mick the Dick.
The cylinder could have been drained easily without doing anything special and would have caused no water spill. I am G3 qualified, but don't need that qualification to know how to drain that.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No worries. Sorry i forgot to login when posting a few mins ago...didn't know you could post without registering!!

not a problem if it happens again, make sure you have the keep me logged in checked/ticked

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Well he got soaked in hot water so at least that's some consolation :hurray:

but big drips dont get wet

 

[psychopomp1]

As above we dont give prices out, But if they've agreed to fix all the water damage then i'd pay in full if/once they complete all works and your happy, is that cylinder on chipboard flooring?

Yep, the cylinder is on chipboard flooring in bedroom airing cupboard.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep, the cylinder is on chipboard flooring in bedroom airing cupboard.

but what happens if chip board gets wet

 

[psychopomp1]

but what happens if chip board gets wet

It gets weak and could cause the cylinder to come crashing down into our kitchen downstairs, probably when we're having our Valentine's dinner on our kitchen dining table?:dizzy2:

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It gets weak and could cause the cylinder to come crashing down into our kitchen downstairs, probably when we're having our Valentine's dinner on our kitchen dining table?:dizzy2:

could yes if been that wet

 

[stevetheplumber]

one i went to recently had a lever valve as a drain of and the pipework was teed into the blowout pipework which i thought was a good idea

 

[Unregistered]

Not sure if there should be a valve on the hot outlet either...

 

[Tjdservices]

I can't believe any plumber, G3 or not would do a live Immersion swap with a low level immersion. What a tool.

 

[snowhead]

Not sure if there should be a valve on the hot outlet either...

You mean like the taps on the sinks and basins also are?

 

[plumben]

Yep, the cylinder is on chipboard flooring in bedroom airing cupboard.

I'd want the flooring under the cylinder replaced to 18mm ply wood as part of the repair works, from my experience with chipboard floor it might not look wet and might seem fine, but that didn't stop my legs dangling through a kitchen ceiling after I took a bath out and stood where the bath was

 

[joni os]

+1 above. My experience with chipboard is similar.

 

[psychopomp1]

I'd want the flooring under the cylinder replaced to 18mm ply wood as part of the repair works, from my experience with chipboard floor it might not look wet and might seem fine, but that didn't stop my legs dangling through a kitchen ceiling after I took a bath out and stood where the bath was

Thanks for the advice. Probably a silly question, but will the cylinder (& fixings) need to be removed in order to replace the flooring?

 

[plumben]

Thanks for the advice. Probably a silly question, but will the cylinder (& fixings) need to come off in order to replace the flooring?

Yes the cylinder as minimum would need to come out and then the old flooring removed and ply put in place, although it might not be as urgent a job as more than likely the cylinder will be sitting over two floor joist so it isn't going anywhere fast but is a job that would be priority for me

 

[WaterTight]

why does a cwsc need to be on 25mm marine plywood to pass regs (or so i've heard) but an unvented cylinder can be put on chipboard?

 

[psychopomp1]

Yes the cylinder as minimum would need to come out and then the old flooring removed and ply put in place, although it might not be as urgent a job as more than likely the cylinder will be sitting over two floor joist so it isn't going anywhere fast but is a job that would be priority for me

But then the Plumbing company would send the same plumber to remove the cylinder, and considering I don't want Mikey the plumber anywhere near my home again I guess I'm in a catch 22 situation...

 

[lame plumber]

you cant expect the plumbing company to improve on what you have at present, thats taking the ****.

 

[Best]

Just insist they send a proper plumber - (also to be G3 qualified) this time as you are not accepting anyone who takes an immersion out of side of a cylinder that's full of water.
That wasn't a simple error, it is inexcusable.

 

[plumben]

But then the Plumbing company would send the same plumber to remove the cylinder, and considering I don't want Mikey the plumber anywhere near my home again I guess I'm in a catch 22 situation...

Not at all catch 22 you haven't paid them anything yet have you?
Just tell the company that your happy for them to carry out the repair works for the damage there plumber has caused but you do not want that plumber back in your house which is more than understandable

 

[PriestyUK]

What was this so called plumber thinking, "yeah ill be able to snatch that" or "Hmmm if I put my hand over it that will stop the water from coming out" - what a donut! He needs to look the word siphon up in the dictionary:

siphon

noun: syphon
1.
a tube used to convey liquid upwards from a reservoir and then down to a lower level of its own accord. Once the liquid has been forced into the tube, typically by suction or immersion, flow continues unaided.

verb: syphon
1.
draw off or convey (liquid) by means of a siphon.
"a piece of tubing was used to siphon petrol"

I would of even cut a drain cock in once it had all been drained down anyways just to cover my own arse.

Out of curiosity do you even use your immersion that much to warrant it changing?

 

[psychopomp1]

What was this so called plumber thinking, "yeah ill be able to snatch that" or "Hmmm if I put my hand over it that will stop the water from coming out" - what a donut! He needs to look the word siphon up in the dictionary:



I would of even cut a drain cock in once it had all been drained down anyways just to cover my own arse.

Out of curiosity do you even use your immersion that much to warrant it changing?

Nup, the immersion has never been used for long periods ever since the house was built (though it was working when i tested it back in Dec 2008) however over the last few weeks there were water droplets appearing near the immersion. The immersion was definitely knackered (badly corroded) and needed replacing, which was done and the leaks have stopped. But all this came at a cost of course....

@lame plumber
I will call the plumbing co first thing on monday and ask them to replace the chipboard either as a like for like replacement or if they're happy, i will pay the difference to upgrade to 18mm thick plywood. Like you said I can't use this incident to get free material upgrades.