Nightmare boiler and unvented cylinder installation

[BollyR]

Hello and happy Easter everyone, hope you're having more fun than me! Friendly advice needed please.
Long story short, we arranged to have a 2 day 2 engineer installation of system boiler and unvented cylinder, replacing a heat only boiler and unvented cylinder with broken coil. Got 3 quotes from (seemingly) reputable engineers. It has been a nightmare from start to finish, the current state of play is we are left with a system with clear faults and an inability to isolate the hot water from the heating. The engineer insists 'there is nothing unsafe about that installation whatsoever'. I am in the process of writing to him regarding breach of contract under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but need to qualify a few technical bits first. One of the other engineers who quoted has been super helpful, but is now away until Tues. If I posted some pics, could anyone help with identifying clear issues? Thanks in advance.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Need pics to have a look and as much spec as you can

 

[BollyR]

Hi Shaun, can you point out anything glaringly obvious from these pics (tundish, electrics etc). I can fire back info, just having an issue with my phone at the moment. Can I upload a video?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

that’s bad there not g3 qualified

 

[ShaunCorbs]

faults cylinder

incorrect installation of the inlet combo block/ prv unit (theyve used the balanced cold port on it so the cylinder cant use the expansion vessel as theres a nrv very serious as if heated the water will have no where to go suggest to dont heat the cylinder)

d1 over 600mm max

d2 not 300 min

single core exposed on immersion

wiring faults maybe?

faults boiler

overflow isnt suitable for blow offs / high temp discharge

if overflow is connected to drains tundish isnt trapped

filling loop is incoreect model should have two isolation valves

 

[BollyR]

that’s bad there

that’s bad there not g3 qual

that’s bad there not g3 qualified

that’s bad there not g3 qualified

I suspect you are right Shaun, they assure me they are. I will speak with Gas Safe Tues, however, we need to get things sorted asap and pursue things as necessary with him alongside this. Just noticed the outside hot water tap only offers a dribble and there is a small leak from a pipe near stopcock. Can you expand on what you can see wrong?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I suspect you are right Shaun, they assure me they are. I will speak with Gas Safe Tues, however, we need to get things sorted asap and pursue things as necessary with him alongside this. Just noticed the outside hot water tap only offers a dribble and there is a small leak from a pipe near stopcock. Can you expand on what you can see wrong?

Post 5

 

[BollyR]

I suspect you are right Shaun, they assure me they are. I will speak with Gas Safe Tues, however, we need to get things sorted asap and pursue things as necessary with him alongside this. Just noticed the outside hot water tap only offers a dribble and there is a small leak from a pipe near stopcock. Can you expand on what you can see wrong?

I'm not able to post for some reason

 

[BollyR]

I'm not able to post for some reason

I am at a complete loss and stressed to the eyeballs. We are two women who are clearly being taking advantage of. He has not been paid in full yet, so that is something. There are other issues, the cylinder is not placed correctly, should be centrally placed on a minimum 650mm footprint. I doubt it is suitably supported. After sign off and supposed commissioning by one of the guys who has been embarrassed throughout, we went to draw a diagram of what's what. When he demonstrated the temperature release valve, hot water went everywhere because the tundish hadn't been connected. He knew the water wasn't working in isolation to the heating, but left anyway. The completely unprofessional powerflush was negligently discharged into our pond thankfully no fish. We've had flooded rooms. All telephone conversations we overheard were clearly from disgruntled customers. I could go on, but a few of questions

 

[BollyR]

1. Taking your point about not heating water, is the system otherwise dangerous?

2. Difficult I know, but what is a ball park figure to redo everything to professional and regulatory standards?

3. If another engineer did remedy everything, could they recommission?

4. If he registers the boiler & system (I think he would be daft to), where do we stand with warranties with non-regulatory work?

5. What can/will Gas Safe do?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'm not able to post for some reason

You weren’t logged in

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If your outstanding payment I wouldn’t pay it as work is very substandard/ dangerous

Cylinder base is fine / supported as it’s your floor joists / construction etc

1 the cylinder install is yes

2 depends what you find as you strip it all out could be £400-2k it’s one of them

3 providing there happy yes

4 cylinder you wouldn’t have a warranty until items fixed as for boiler you would have to check it first eg flue system and gas provided they check out and the benchmark is filled in yes

They will only comment on the boiler / gas side they can force him to make it safe / do any faults they find

 

[BollyR]

You weren’t logged in

I promise you I was

 

[BollyR]

If your outstanding payment I wouldn’t pay it as work is very substandard/ dangerous

Cylinder base is fine / supported as it’s your floor joists / construction etc

1 the cylinder install is yes

2 depends what you find as you strip it all out could be £400-2k it’s one of them

3 providing there happy yes

4 cylinder you wouldn’t have a warranty until items fixed as for boiler you would have to check it first eg flue system and gas provided they check out and the benchmark is filled in yes

They will only comment on the boiler / gas side they can force him to make it safe / do any faults they find

OK great, thanks again.

Is the work illegal, or just not to regulatory standards, putting aside his G3 status?
Will the cylinder have sustained damage?
Would he be a fool to register them?
If he doesn't, can a willing engineer remedy things, commission & register with authority & warranties, as if none of this has happened?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I wouldn’t want him back put it this way and I would start the process of going down the route of court to get the money back if your that way inclined

Yes it’s Illegal to install an unvented cylinder if your not qualified have to go to the hse for further details

 

[Scott_D]

How much did he job cost?
2 days isnt enough to complete a boiler and cylinder to a decent standard in my opinion. On the positive side it looks like it can all be put right with a little time and effort.

 

[BollyR]

How much did he job cost?
2 days isnt enough to complete a boiler and cylinder to a decent standard in my opinion. On the positive side it looks like it can all be put right with a little time and effort.

Hi Scott, £3500 in total. Was meant to be two engineers two days, but ended up being one very stressed engineer, one apprentice of three weeks & the boss popping in & out over four very long & stressful days. You're not local to West Yorkshire are you!

Update tonight is after writing to him earlier I received a fairly aggressive response, followed 15 mins later by a much softer response. Says he will contact Gas Safe & HSE himself & still maintains it's a good install & all to regs. Disputes it is in any way dangerous. We can't have him back. Awful situation.

 

[Scott_D]

I think you need to give them an opportunity to correct the faults. You could insist that whoever comes to do the work needs to have in date qualifications for gas and unvented cylinders

 

[BollyR]

Hi Scott, £3500 in total. Was meant to be two engineers two days, but ended up being one very stressed engineer, one apprentice of three weeks & the boss popping in & out over four very long & stressful days. You're not local to West Yorkshire are you!

Update tonight is after writing to him earlier I received a fairly aggressive response, followed 15 mins later by a much softer response. Says he will contact Gas Safe & HSE himself & still maintains it's a good install & all to regs. Disputes it is in any way dangerous. We can't have him back. Awful situation.

Plus in the

I think you need to give them an opportunity to correct the faults. You could insist that whoever comes to do the work needs to have in date qualifications for gas and unvented cylinders

In different circumstances yes absolutely Scott, however, it will be the same guys as it's just them. We genuinely have zero faith, the standard of work throughout has been really dreadful, with mishaps every day. How would we have confidence that everything is corrected to required standards, they clearly believe things as they stand are acceptable. He continues to insist they have G3. Had I not suspected things were wrong & looked for help, goodness knows what could have happened. In the meantime we are left without hot water, worried whether the cylinder has been damaged & how things will be sorted/registered, and super stressed.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ask him for the engineers qualification certificate if you want to tbh I wouldn’t want them back

 

[BollyR]

Ask him for the engineers qualification certificate if you want to tbh I wouldn’t want them back

I've asked for photos of his & the other engineer's certificates, to include his public liability insurance, which I suspect may have lapsed (I've been doing some digging) & he says he will send them Tues as he's away for the w/end. We've got quotes to get the pond sorted & it's best part of £1k.

The incorrectly installed combo block/ prv unit seems the worst issue, so far. Could you just explain that a bit more please? We're not heating the hot water & worried to even turn the tap on!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Water in from the left of you look at your he’s taking the cold from the balanced port which has a non return valve in so nothing can flow back

He’s connected the expansion vessel to the out connection so when the unvented is heated the cylinder can’t expand back to the expansion vessel as there’s a non return valve in the way

 

[BollyR]

View attachment 75012

Water in from the left of you look at your he’s taking the cold from the balanced port which has a non return valve in so nothing can flow back

He’s connected the expansion vessel to the out connection so when the unvented is heated the cylinder can’t expand back to the expansion vessel as there’s a non return valve in the way

I get it now Shaun, so helpful & much appreciated.

 

[Scott_D]

Is there a zone valve for the heating?
Can you post a picture of the flue and external pipes?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Is there a zone valve for the heating?
Can you post a picture of the flue and external pipes?

Far left grey box if it’s wired up

 

[BollyR]

Is there a zone valve for the heating?
Can you post a picture of the flue and external pipes?

S Plan? Do you mean this?
The old cylinder overflow pipe was hooked into the wall & over a window, now hooked into the plastic going down left & connected to what was there. Said OK as used push connections?
Pipe to right now bossed into stack is from below the boiler? There was another original pipe sticking out, now removed, not sure what that was, overflow?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The internal unvented and boiler tundish’s need changing for either mactun1 or teslatun as it’s connected to waste so if left you could get smells / gases coming from the drain inside

And a few more clips wouldn’t hurt on the waste pipes

 

[BollyR]

The internal unvented and boiler tundish’s need changing for either mactun1 or teslatun as it’s connected to waste so if left you could get smells / gases coming from the drain inside

And a few more clips wouldn’t hurt on the waste pipes

Thanks Shaun, already on our list.

 

[gmartine]

Absolutely boils my pi** seeing this as it takes almost as much effort to do it that badly as well as giving us a bad name.

How much do you "owe" them?

 

[BollyR]

Absolutely boils my pi** seeing this as it takes almost as much effort to do it that badly as well as giving us a bad name.

How much do you "owe" them?

Totally agree, it's been such a stressful week, but I'm feeling better today. Balance 'due' is £1500. I've got a couple of quotes to basically start again, including another flush as the first (on day two I should add) was woeful & the filter (cleaned twice now with the system off) is full of swarf. I've taken some legal advice & written to him giving him the option to walk away. If he does I will pay the balance of the boiler/cylinder cost £300 max & that's it. If he doesn't gas safe, HSE etc will become involved & he'll have to make a claim against me, which I will defend. There's no way I could trust him to remedy anything.

 

[gmartine]

Fair enough, sounds like you have it in hand but please keep us updated as your experience will prove useful to others.

 

[BollyR]

Fair enough, sounds like you have it in hand but please keep us updated as your experience will prove useful to others.

Interesting development tonight, after writing to him with attached videos. Having been told repeatedly & fairly aggressively by text & email that everything is 100% OK & he will get his solicitor to charge me for wasting his time, I now get a text saying he yesterday looked at some of the photos he took (he didn't take any) & noticed all the incorrect things & was going to pop back tomorrow to fix them. Apparently only the expansion issue is serious, other things are minor. Lots of other totally made up nonsense. Wants to speak with me, but I've told him to respond to my letter(s) in writing.

Not over yet & I will keep everyone updated in the hope my experience does help others. So grateful to folk here who give up their time to help & support others.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Make sure who ever comes to fix it at your request brings proof of qualification (g3) either will be a card eg like a gas safe card or there qualification (this should have a holo stamp and be thick a4 card material)

 

[Scott_D]

Make sure who ever comes to fix it at your request brings proof of qualification (g3) either will be a card eg like a gas safe card or there qualification (this should have a holo stamp and be thick a4 card material)

Agreed. Anyone who has taken the time and expense to gain these qualifications and keep them up to date will be happy to show them to you.

 

[gmartine]

Yeah, no photocopies or mobile phone pics.