Newbie looking for a bit of friendly advice re pipe runs

[Scottda]

Hi
I am a DIY'r with a fair level of experience. I have a vented system with a glowworm energy saver 30e. A little house remodelling meant for removing one small rad and moving another. Ceiling down revealed the main flow and return in 22mm going down to 15mm runs and then down to 10mm micro bore behind the dry linng to the rad. Easy move, piped in the 15mm and micro bore to new location. Everything works perfect. However, at the same time and whilst the ceiling was down I took the opportunity of 'fixing' my conservatory rad. When the builders built the conservatory, they tee'd off one of the existing rads (one that I just removed) using microbore, result....well two poor performing rads both starving each other. So with a pair of pipes from the 15mm run available due to the decommissioned rad I thought I would run it direct to the conservatory rad. This has meant for a long run of microbore that is not ideal and the rad gets fairly warm but not hot? Bled the system etc but the return pipe is still quite cool. So here is my question, given the conservatory gets very cold and the ceilings are down, would I be better running a new run to the conservatory rad by tee'ing off the 22mm flow and return closer to the boiler? (the other available pair that I am using is at the far end of the run, does this matter? If so, do I just stab in the flow and return anywhere near the boiler? Sorry if it's a dumb question but thought I would ask you guys before I got my pipe cutter out

 

[JCplumb]

I'd extend the flow and return as close to the conservatory as possible, then use 15mm as much as possible too.
Wider pipes to rad and shorter run from flow/return = more heat.

 

[Scottda]

Thanks very much for the advice, jus to check, is it as easy as stabbing off the flow and return next to the boiler? Any min distance I should adhere to?
Thanks

 

[Whn1]

You need to tee off for the rad after your zone valve and, Not of off the primary flow and return coming straight from your boiler.

 

[Scottda]

Thank you Whn1, now I am going to make myself look stupid so prep yourself... What's a zone valve? All I know of is the bypass valve, pump and the valve(?) that allows the F and E tank to connect. I should have said, it's central heating only, no hot water. Does this make a difference to where I can tee in?. Thanks for the advice so far guys, it is very much appreciated.

 

[diamondgas]

I'd be looking for the closest place to connect into with 15mm pipe Scottda :welcome: to the forum, by-the-way Teeing into the 22mm pipes would be best for flow but teeing off 15mm would be fine depending on length of run and number of rads it's gonna be supplying IMO

 

[Scottda]

Thanks diamondgas, what about the zone valve mentioned above?

 

[Simon F]

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/32027-demistifying-your-plumbing.html

look at post # 5 ( central heating )
the 2 and 3 port valves are zone vales

if you only have heating, then you likely won't have one,
what heats your water?

 

[Scottda]

I have an immersion heater only for hot water. There is a good place about 18" away from the boiler flow and return connections that I could stab into....good idea or not?
Thanks

 

[Simon F]

the return closest to the boiler should ideally be the bypass
the flow for the new radiator needs to be after the pump ( working on the assumption from previous posts, that there are no zone valves )

it is difficult to answer the question as to where to cut into without seeing how the pipes run.
maybe some photos with an indication of where you plan to cut in to the existing pipes would help some one to give you a better answer.

 

[Scottda]

Simon. That is great advice, thanks. Glad I didn't do what I planned now as the tees wouldn't have been after the pump...(seems obvious now you have said that). I don't have access to take all the pics needed as I am working from previous memory of the pipe runs last time the ceiling was down, only have the ceiling down in the bit of house i am remodelling. Now taking into consideration what you said about after the pump, I may just extend the 22mm as far as possible then drop down to 15mm and 10mm microbore. Then a big focus on balancing I presume. This forum has proved to be very valuable indeed. Thanks everyone

 

[JCplumb]

As you suggested earlier that you would like max heat in the conservatory (Am I reading between the liines too much?) You want to extend your flow/return pipework to go as close to the conservatory as poss, it may already be very close though. Then use as much 15mm as possible, if you can pipe from the flow/return all the way to the rad without using microbore that would be ideal.
I'll do a drawing thingy and post it up in a min that may help you understand flow and return.

 

[JCplumb]

thrown together drawing, not absolutely accurate so no quibbles about pump siting etc.. thankyou very much guys And I know there's no bypass (my drawing assumes an always on bathroom rad :winkiss: )
The long blue and red pipes are your network of flow and return pipes, they will be in 22mm until they reduce off towards radiators, it's this 22mm that you want to extend as close as poss to your conservatory, my suggestion would be to extend from the closest downstairs pipes and come up into the conservatory with 15mm, or extend upstairs and come down with 15mm.
Hope that's clear

 

[Scottda]

JCPlumb. Thanks for taking the time to do that for me, very informative. I will extend the 22mm right up to the old external wall (adjacent to conservatory) and the try and pipe through with 15mm to the rad (might even drop in a second but need to check the boiler capacity). My pump is on setting 2 of 3 in terms of speed, what's the rationale in deciding what speed it should run at? Would a faster speed also help?
Thanks again.

 

[JCplumb]

A faster speed won't necessarily help. Depends on the length of your pipe runs and how many rads you have. If the water flies round your system and comes back hot then your boiler will stop heating it.
Keep it on 2 for now and see how you get on.

 

[Scottda]

Ok, that makes sense. I will try it and see how it goes. Might have an opportunity this weekend. Will post progress here. Thanks