Search the forum,

Discuss New oil boiler system required - Advice needed please in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

rich_mat_rix

Hi,


I'm in need of some advice regarding the fitting of a new boiler. I'm no expert so i'll apologise in advance if I get the terminology and/or descriptions wrong, and also sorry for such a lengthy post. We're on oil, and currently have an aging conventional Boulter boiler which is pretty much on it's last legs and needs replacing in the near future. We have an open vented gravity based system feeding a standard insulated copper cylinder. We also have an Aga which when on during the winter months also heats the cylinder.


In the next 5 years or so, I plan on converting our loft into a living space. At the moment, there are two extremely large connected cold water storage tanks and a small feed and expansion tank for the heating system up there.
What I would like to do is lose or reduce the size of the tanks in the loft when we get a new boiler. I've been told to do this we would have to move to a pressurised system. However, we also want to be able to keep the ability for the Aga to heat the hot water, but in researching this, i've found that this isn't usually possible because the Aga is an uncontrolled heat source.


Can anybody suggest whether it is possible to replace our current boiler and system with one which can achieve both goals (i.e. lose or reduce size of water tanks whilst still allowing the Aga to heat the hot water in conjunction with the boiler)? I've looked into twin coil cylinders which are used in conjunction with solar panels, but I suspect that because it is the cylinder that is pressurised then this would not work. Any advice is very much appreciated.


Many thanks,


Richard
 
Simple to do with a thermal store. One store (vented or unvented - though probably vented in your case) through all the heat sources into it (boiler, aga, solar, immersion form PV, back boiler stovve..), and take all the heat uses (radiator, hot water etc) out of it.

Heat source connections can be direct or indirect (depending upon the actual source and store) HW will be indirect giving you mains pressure hot water. Radiators probably indirect also unsless an unvented thermal store.

You need a heating engineer not a plumber.
:: AKVA SOLAR
 
Last edited:
Many thanks for the fast reply. So am I right in saying that the thermal store replaces the hot water cylinder? Also, given that the system would have to remain unvented, what type of boiler could we install that would mean we wouldn't need cold water storage tanks in the loft?

Cheers,

Richard
 
Anything is possible and there are more ways of doing it. Do you know what heat output to water your aga is giving you? You'll need somebody out to have a look.
 
As SimonG says, you'll need someone to do the full heat load sizing calcs for you (peak power requirement and annual energy requirement) I wouldn't replace an oil boiler with an oil boiler! - I'd put a Biomass boiler in - you'll get paid for it (RHI/RHPP) and it's cheaper to run.

Without the load sizing info no-one can properly advise you. - It takes the best part of a day to survey a property and calculate all those values. - look for a local MCS certified Biomass installer and they will (should) know all of the above stuff and how to do it.
 
Yes u could go bio mass and install a massive hopper next to boiler house, wait for delivery and watch prices go up up up ! Or stay oil and hide the tank, obviously oil will get more expensive too. But best payment on rhi and grant is gshp and solar thermal as they use nearly no carbon based fuels.

Gshp could supplement heating and then topped up by aga in winter and a smaller oil boiler in summer / when really cold? When u do loft install solar PT and possibly PV. thermal store : acv slimline sl thermal store? Thermal store would need to be higher than aga so that if power cut u don't boil nuts off aga?
 
Thermal store would need to be higher than aga so that if power cut u don't boil nuts off aga?

Yep that's the challenge, unless you separate that side (hence the comments on making it indirect) and put in a heat dump.
On large scale retrofit biomass it is our usual practice to separate the orginal installation (legacy boilers, heating, radiators, hot water etc) by the use of indirect coils or plate heat exchangers, that way it's easy to cope with the different pressure requirements of the different systems and also whatever crud is in the existing systems (even after flushing) wont b*****r up the nice new boiler :)

It also allows us to configure the new boiler to work in the ideal environment with it's own optimal flow and return temperatures, so maximising its efficiency.
 
Last edited:
How come I've sacked half a dozen 'know it all' plumbers in the last year then :) and had to send others back in to fix their stuff because they didn't follow the design. - Just read some of the posts on this forum to see how little SOME (not all) plumbers know. (In the same way that I've sacked electricians for the same reason..)

I also acknowledge that ALL heating engineers should spend time on site trying to install their designs :)

How many plumbers do you know that can size a thermal store?
 
Last edited:
the only thing not mentioned is the huge cost differentials involved in fitting thermal stores v boiler/aga on standard vented system. My only other issue is why a boulter camray is on its last legs, good solid boiler normally with easily replaced parts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks all for the input. The current boiler is a Boulter Riallo 40 - about 15 years old. We've had a few breakdowns over recent years and our service engineer (Oftec approved) has said he doesn't think it's got much time left - 1-2 years max in his opinion, hence the search for ideas on a replacement system.

I've considered biomass, but am not sold due to the need to constantly refill the system, and also with Government incentives to improve home energy efficiency i.e. RHI, Green Deal (even though it's flawed and yet to get off the ground), i'm concerned prices for biomass fuel may rocket in the future. GSHP is one i've not looked at yet - sounds interesting.

On the subject of costs, could anyone advise on typical cost of a thermal store based system, including new boiler?
 
unless your house is set up correctly and very well insulated gshp will not work either and be expensive to run. At least youve seen the light re biomass and future costs, not everything is as some people make out.
 
Lame I agree. Biomass your by the short and curls! There are two main ports for the stuff to come in and price is driven by demand.

Old boiler ....... Did the engineer have "British oil " on side of van??? Advice seems much like that of British gas!

I would assume that the house would be well insulated otherwise the home owner is a bit of a silly billy. £5 on insulation = £50 saving on fuel over about two weeks ( payback dependent on current insulation and location) ?

I personally don't size anything! I have ample training and engineering training . Meng. But let the manufacturers specify as that's what they are good at. I wouldn't use any one but the best for thermal stores , no coils no plates just 3 letters!
 
Rich_ma_trix,

First of all the Aga must be the most inefficient piece of kit on the market next to a helicopter, been a member of the green party won't wipe the slate clean on owning and operating an Aga, if you intend to keep it then I can see where your name comes from RICH, you need to be, the losses incurred on the Aga are from poor thermal efficiency and using energy when it is not required about 22 x 7, an induction hob and a electric cooker are far far more efficient.

Anyway, if you do intend to keep the Aga speak to them about the cylinder side of things and open venting and heat sinking then you can't go wrong, I take it the Aga is oil fired.

You may simply have to keep the two systems apart, you may need to source a special cylinder, gravity connection for the Aga and a coil for the heating boiler for summer use. I am sure you will be able to source the right cylinder from somewhere.

Tony
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Reply to New oil boiler system required - Advice needed please in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Creating content since 2001. Untold Media.

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock