Neighbours flue

[Loo from Looe]

My neighbours flue from their boiler comes straight out of a party wall into my courtyard. This is obviously my land. When I asked them to move/rerout it they called in a gas engineer who said the flue was perfectly legal. They seem to be missing the point that the pipe itself may be legal, but it is on my land. I don't know what to do next, any hel appreciated.

 

[Ray Stafford]

I don't think that you are going to get a definitive answer on an internet forum.

Boundary disputes and the rights (easements) that one property holder may have regarding neighbours property is a complex area of law, and the legal situation can change simply by the passage of time. It certainly isn't simply a question of "git yer cotton pickin' flue offa mah land".

I would suggest having a word at your local citizens advice, or organising a short consultation with a local solicitor who deals with boundary issues.

 

[Reg Man]

Brutish Standard 5440 Part 1 Quote "the flue duct outlet on the appliance shall be sited so that it is at least 600mm from the boundary line when facing it and 300mm from the boundary line when run in parallel to it" Note the word shall! Eniromental health department might take an interest.

 

[Ray Stafford]

There are two different issues here.

There are the regulations/MIs for appliance and flue siting. I don't know whether there is an obligation for existing installations to comply retrospectively - perhaps others who know the regs better can advise?

As a completely separate matter, there is property law governing boundaries, rights and easements etc, which is a minefield of statute, precedent and common law.

As householder, you can't enforce regs on your neighbour. You can only inform the relevant enforcing authority and hope that they do. You can enforce your property rights through the courts, but this is often not straightforward.

 

[Reg Man]

If the boiler has been replaced it must comply with the current regulations, regardless if the old appliance did not. Press your local authority building control department as the boiler would have required a compliance certificate for the works which was probably self certificated by the installer under their competent persons scheme.

 

[Howsie]

Put a bag over it if its on your property.

 

[doitmyself]

Apart from Building Regs and boundary etc law, there is also the matter of the fumes emitted from the flue being a 'Statutory Nuisance' under the 1990 Environmental Protection Act 1990, Part III.

(1) the following matters constitute “statutory nuisances” for the purposes of this Part, that is to say—
(a) ...
(b) smoke emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(c) fumes or gases emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance.

This is a matter for your local council's Environmental Health Department.

 

[Loo from Looe]

Apart from Building Regs and boundary etc law, there is also the matter of the fumes emitted from the flue being a 'Statutory Nuisance' under the 1990 Environmental Protection Act 1990, Part III.

(1) the following matters constitute “statutory nuisances” for the purposes of this Part, that is to say—
(a) ...
(b) smoke emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(c) fumes or gases emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance.

This is a matter for your local council's Environmental Health Department.

Thanks for all the replies I love yours Howsie but don't really want to kill the neighbours! Reg man the ironic thing is it is a CAB office next door, owned by the council! They have not been very cooperative since I bought the property. You see what I am up against.

I knew about the 600mm within their boundary and a lawyer on another site mentioned 'trespass ' if the pipe is on my property, which it definitely is. But why don't they know?

Their boiler is condensing and fairly new, but my house was empty for 3 years and I think all the neighbours have just taken advantage.

I'll let you know if I make any progress.

 

[Loo from Looe]

Thanks also to Ray Stafford for his input

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

Put a bag over it if its on your property.

not good advise ?????

 

[petercj]

Have a word with a planning officer at your local council offices.

 

[Howsie]

not good advise ?????

Hence the wink.

 

[Hybrid]

Thanks for all the replies I love yours Howsie but don't really want to kill the neighbours! Reg man the ironic thing is it is a CAB office next door, owned by the council! They have not been very cooperative since I bought the property. You see what I am up against.

Get in touch with your local councillor armed with the relevent facts and regs, if there's one thing that'll put a fire under the council's backside it's a councillor.

 

[petercj]

The CAB and the Local Council are two completely separate and different agencies - the CAB might rent the building from the council, but that's here nor there.

The CAB is a charity that uses mainly volunteers to give advice, most of their volunteers don't have any specialist knowledge at all, and spend a lot of time looking things up on the Internet.

The 'horse's mouth' for this kind of thing is a Planning Officer at your local council offices.

Pluming from condensing boilers is a common irritation for neighbours, but there is no significant risk to health when it is released into the open air.

 

[Backboiler]

It is an option and a relatively low cost fix, to fit a "plume" kit to the exiting terminal. For those that may not know, a plume kit is a small diameter pipe that fits over the centre of the terminal, which can be routed in any sensible direction (higher up usually), to transport the products of combustion to a less nuisance causing location.

 

[petercj]

According to post 1, the OP is unhappy about the positioning of the flue over her land per se.

Best to check with LA Planning Office re any breach of regulations - if there is, they might follow it up.

If not, check deeds to see if neighbour has any right to do this.

As a last resort, see solicitor about positioning and what can be done.

If a dispute is raised that involves solicitors it will become something that should be disclosed during any future conveyance of the property as part of the pre-sale inquiries.

The fact that the neighbours took advice on it when queried is a good sign, and might indicate that if they have been wrongly advised they will be prepared to change the positioning if the rights and wrongs are made clear to them.

Conflicts with neighbours are best avoided if possible, even if you win 'the battle' you might end up in a 'war' of ill-will that lasts for many years.

I can appreciate how annoying it can be when neighbours take things for granted and take liberties, but it is worth doing the ground-work on the rights and wrongs and then pausing to weigh up the likely costs and benefits of taking legal action.

If the principle of the matter is not the paramount issue for the OP, and plumeing is an annoyance, maybe a plume kit could be part of a compromise?

 

[lame plumber]

It is an option and a relatively low cost fix, to fit a "plume" kit to the exiting terminal. For those that may not know, a plume kit is a small diameter pipe that fits over the centre of the terminal, which can be routed in any sensible direction (higher up usually), to transport the products of combustion to a less nuisance causing location.

bit late but a plume kit wont resolve the issue as the flue pops out of a wall into the ops yard!!!!, you could do what you do with tree branches and apples, just cut them off at the boundary and return all the parts to your neighbour.

 

[Al7]

I'm pretty sure if you contact Gas Safe and ask for an inspector visit he will come out on site and advise the best course of action, we had to move a flue when the neighbour complained of pluming entering his property from nearly 2mtrs away!

 

[stevetheplumber]

they are not allowed to put the flue out over your boundary but you may have to take them to court to get it changed

 

[Reg Man]

The legislation for this sitution is in the Party Walls Act 1996. The requirements for the positioning of the flue terminal in relation to boundaries are in Building Regulations document J. If the disputing party wish to make objection to the flue position, they should write to the neigbour stating the reason they are unhappy and quoting the various sections which apply under the provisions on these documents. These documents are available free of charge on www.gov.uk