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Discuss Megaflo Eco vs Eco Plus in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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Hi all,

We moved into our current home 18-months ago and the following heating/ HW system was already in place: Worcester Bosch 24i system boiler with loft water tank and ancient cylinder (c.100 litre capacity). This looks after 17 rads and two bathrooms. In order to improve water pressure in the showers, we installed a 4 Bar Stuart Turner Monsoon Pump. Very effective but creates a lot of noise and it comes on even when we flush the toilets (Positive Head Twin Booster Pump). I also had a Kinetico 2050c water softener installed as we are in a hard water area.

Unfortunately, the pump is driving my wife nuts and I have decided to get an unvented cylinder installed as a replacement. We are planning to add a further four bathrooms when we extend in the future and we may then supplement the cylinder with a pumped accumulator and replace the boiler with a more powerful model.

Our plumber has suggested the Megaflo Eco 300I Indirect, this should provide sufficient extra capacity for our future requirements. I'm fine with Megaflo as a brand and aware that there are many alternatives available at more competitive prices. If we focus on Megaflo, can you please advise whether I should go with the Eco or Eco Plus variant? I like the sound of the Eco Plus as it is capable of providing better flow but my plumber thinks the Eco is all we will need.

Thanks in advance!
 
Stick some pics of the pump and pipework. If it's noisy and coming on when the toilets flushed then it sounds like a poor install.

On the unvented I wouldn't go with a megaflo.
 
Stick some pics of the pump and pipework. If it's noisy and coming on when the toilets flushed then it sounds like a poor install.

On the unvented I wouldn't go with a megaflo.

Hi Simon, will try and get some pictures tonight but the pump is boxed up to provide some acoustic insulation so it might be difficult to make everything out. Megaflo appears to divide opinion; why are you against it and which alternative would you suggest?
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with a Megaflow and they are of good quality, however I think at least some of the opposition comes from the fact that you can probably get the same quality with equal performance for less money with some other brands. I can't quote actual prices for you as I am not on mainland Britain and our prices are usually a fair bit higher than the same thing you would buy in the UK.

There will be opinions aplenty coming up here I am sure.
 
I have a Megaflo, and whilst it is fine, there are equally good, cheaper alternatives. Joule is mentioned a lot, but I have no personal experience of them.

The one negative for Megaflo (which is ironically marketed as a positive!) is the internal baffle they use to take up expansion of hot water. In my experience, and if you search the forums, many other people's experience, it requires recharging far too often, even when everything has been setup correctly. You also lose some HW capacity because of it. I ended up having an external EV fitted on mine, as I got fed up with it.

With regards to Eco vs Eco Plus - what is your incoming cold water flow rate? If you intend on running 4+ showers, you will need to make sure your CW supply can cope with the flow rate required (or sufficient capacity in any accumulators you have fitted). You will also need to run 28mm pipework. The Eco Plus may have 28mm inlet and outlet connections and the Pressure Reducing Valve may be the 28mm variant, rather than the standard 22mm. All of these will help delivering the flow rates you'll inevitably require.
 
the pump is boxed up to provide some acoustic insulation

Therein lies part of your problem TBH...

Anyway, with that many bathrooms, THE most important aspect of your potential install is not what is installed, but the ability of the existing main to supply. Your plumbers should have advised this.

IMHO, you and your plumber are best off getting the OSO rep round to give you best advice. Sounds like you are in the house for a while so investing in good (reliable & servicable) kit should be very high on your list of priorities. Saving £200 now will cost you £1000s down teh line.
 
What’s your main pressure and flow also what’s your incoming pipe size eg dia ?
 
You are in the money as I don't know the pressure and flow myself but will ask my plumber as he did measure it.

The incoming supply was upgraded in the early 90s when the previous owner installed a swimming pool & spa so I would imagine it is a decent size but I won't guess!

YorkshireDave - you mention OSO, what is it about their cylinders that makes them better than Megaflo?
 
You are in the money as I don't know the pressure and flow myself but will ask my plumber as he did measure it.

The incoming supply was upgraded in the early 90s when the previous owner installed a swimming pool & spa so I would imagine it is a decent size but I won't guess!

YorkshireDave - you mention OSO, what is it about their cylinders that makes them better than Megaflo?

Did he measure static & dynamic flow rates and at peak times? What size is your meter? I'll wager 50:1 no one has looked.

In short professionalism. If they cannot deliver a great product they will simply walk away. Never found that with anyone else as all they concerned with is the sale. The expertise of Dave Wilks (my area rep) is off the scale and he's a direct line to those who know 'everything'.
 
Almost certainly the case that he did not measure the dynamic flow rates at different times as he only visited us once for this particular project. I don't have a meter (yet)!

In terms of the outcome of the tests you mention, is the net result that if the flow varies during peak times that we should overcome this with a pumped accumulator or is there another solution? My understanding was that the unvented cylinder cannot overcome supply (pressure/ flow) issues alone.

You make a compelling case for OSO so I may get them over. Do they dispense with the Megaflo style internal baffle that Fezster mentioned?
 
Almost certainly the case that he did not measure the dynamic flow rates at different times as he only visited us once for this particular project. I don't have a meter (yet)!

In terms of the outcome of the tests you mention, is the net result that if the flow varies during peak times that we should overcome this with a pumped accumulator or is there another solution? My understanding was that the unvented cylinder cannot overcome supply (pressure/ flow) issues alone.

You make a compelling case for OSO so I may get them over. Do they dispense with the Megaflo style internal baffle that Fezster mentioned?

Depends on model chosen. That is why speaking to the rep, and being 100% honest, will deliver for you. The reality is that, in this instance, I'd not assume anything. No one here can have the detailed knowledge of your situation to deliver definitive advice. TBH ignore all you read. You can never have appropriate context and the tinest of details is going to make or break your install. This sounds like a small hotel install.

One certainty however is that you will need a very large meter. A system can only perform to its norrowest bore. Lastly, with all those bathroom you WILL need a return loop otherwise you'll be waiting forever and you efforts effectively wasted. And finally lastly, controls are vital here too. Do not ignore them.
Sorry to go on ;)
 
All of your advice is appreciated so happy for you to go on!

When you say controls - what exactly do you mean? The existing boiler is controlled by a Nest Thermostat (3rd Gen) which allows me to turn the hot water on/ off. There is a hot water thermostat mounted adjacent to the cylinder on the wall in the airing cupboard.
 
All of your advice is appreciated so happy for you to go on!

When you say controls - what exactly do you mean? The existing boiler is controlled by a Nest Thermostat (3rd Gen) which allows me to turn the hot water on/ off. There is a hot water thermostat mounted adjacent to the cylinder on the wall in the airing cupboard.

Personally, having installed similar systems, most of the time full capacity is not required. So, appropriate controls allow one to control how much capacity is heated at any point. No point in heating 10 bathrooms full of HW if only 3 people in occupancy! Similarly, the water circulation needs to be managed as that naturally incorporates inherrent heat loss.
 
Managed to get some pictures of the existing set-up. Apologies for quality and order.
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You have a lot of work ahead. The existing pipework will not support more than 3 bathrooms with a reasonable flow in each.
 
Yes, noted. When we do our extension/ renovation porject, the house will be re-plumbed throughout and the cylinder, new boiler etc will all be positioned in garage.

Using the existing airing cupboard space is a temporary measure and at the moment the cylinder thankfully only has to serve two bathrooms.
 
Yes, noted. When we do our extension/ renovation porject, the house will be re-plumbed throughout and the cylinder, new boiler etc will all be positioned in garage.

Using the existing airing cupboard space is a temporary measure and at the moment the cylinder thankfully only has to serve two bathrooms.

Just dont do it in plastic! Copper only.
 
I spoke to a member of the technical team at OSO. After going through my requirements he suggested 2 x 250 Litre PowerCyl RI F1 Indirect Unvented Hot Water Cylinders (RI250F1).

I only need one for now and once we have extended to create the additional 4 bathrooms we should also supplement the set-up with an OSO SuperStream system (OSO's branded accumulator vessels) and ensure pipework is sufficiently large.

Does this all make sense?
 
How many baths in the end ?
 
You need to ensure your mains flow rate is adequate enough that the accumulator is used only to supplement it. A 500 litre accumulator only gives approx half of that in usable volume, which won't go very far with more than two high flow outlets in use.

The OSO system is no doubt very slick - their marketing certainly is. However, I've looked at their prices in the past, and for what they're offering, it seems to me to be quite expensive. A 500 litre Reliance accumulator with replaceable membrane can be bought for under £600, for example. As long as you have somebody who knows what they are doing installing it, I doubt it'd come anywhere close to the price OSO are asking for.
 

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