Mains Stopcock has been replace by my builder, is that right?

[Holly2011]

Hi,
I wonder if someone could give me some advice please? I have been having some work done in my house. My builder told me because of a slow leak in the main water pipe to my property he had to replace the old lead pipe,which he did. The stopcock to the water mains was under the front door in a hatch under the mat.

However, on doing my mid inspection I found that the builder had relocated the water mains stopcock into the electrical and gas cupboard under the stairs, which I am fine with if it is ok to re-locate it here? if anyone can tell me if this conforms to building regs i would be grateful.

My 2nd main concern was that he showed me that he had replaced the stopcock with some kind or lever which I was concerned with as I have never seen such a thing. I was concerned that If somone moved a chair in the cupboard they could accidently switch off the water. This lever thing also to me looked a bit weak, althoguh it did look easy to turn off or on. My main worry was that as the water coming into the house will be under mains pressure especially with the leak in the old piping eradicated I was anxious to know if this lever thing can burst, seize up or ever stop me from turning off the water if I am in a situation where I need to turn it off.

Is it best to stick with this new lever thing or go back to my old stopcock. If I need to get a new stopcock can anyone reccomend a reliable brand??

You answers are fully appreciated,

Thanks Holly

 

[SafeGasInstall]

he has done it correct keep all controls in same place ,liver valves better then normal stopcock !

 

[unguided1]

I personally prefer the use of stopcocks but would like to add as safegasinstall says there is no problem using a lever valve.

My reason for prefering stopcocks is they are designed to give backflow prevention, as is the one the one in the street, its a belt and braces thing the more you have the better the protection.

 

[kay-jay]

its very common to see lever valves used. i personally fit them for elderly people who may struggle with the crutch head type in an emergency situation.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i have fitted quite a few of the lever type for the older generation in my area as they are easier to use as kay-jay said.

 

[Holly2011]

Dear all thank you for your help

 

[allstarsystems]

On the incoming supply should be a stopcock installed. Also why has he brought a cold main supply in an electric cupboard? I would say that is bad practise to run a cold main next to an electrical fuse board?

 

[fuzzy]

there r regs about how close they can be to each other
im sure you must have the correct stopcock or stop valve with a drain off, you can then add a lever type after for quick shut off. a lever valve is basically a ball o fix with a lever on it! not desingned for the same pressures, unless there are specific ones made. i hope you can correct me if im wrong as it will update my own knowledge

 

[allstarsystems]

yes like unguided1 states about the backflow prevention on a stopcock im sure it is in the water reg's guide

 

[SafeGasInstall]

the meter has backflow prventer it self ,if ther is one

 

[allstarsystems]

well yes but it could be a shared main supply too

 

[Blackcatgas]

It el be reeeeeeeet, stop worrying.

 

[fuzzy]

stop valve does have bf prevention but not to current standards im sure

 

[Kimou]

The full-bore lever valve offers no resistance to the incoming supply, if opened fully- whereas the previous screwdown stopcock did by way of its construction which forced the water over a built in ridge.

Its installation is a bit like birth control, really. Get turned on and always put on your protection before you get drained down.

 

[cr0ft]

Personally I know that full bore lever valves have no back-flow protection, but as has already been said, water meters have backflow protection. As should showers and garden taps. I'm not convinced that stopcocks offer fantastic back-flow protection either. What I do know is I've been to countless jobs where I've had to repair leaking stopcocks. Never been to a job where I've had to repair a leaking lever valve yet.

If I'm ever replacing a stopcock then I always replace them with a lever valve. The only real downside I can see with these is you have to turn them off slowly, especially on a high pressure mains. Otherwise you can get fairly severe water hammer if the water is flowing when you turn it off.

Most lever ball valves are rated up to 10 bars, some are rated to 25 bars. As lead-free solder joints start to give up the ghost at about 10 bars I wouldn't worry too much about the ball valve failing on you!

 

[stevetheplumber]

The reason you see lots of leaking stop cocks is many will be fifty plus years old ive had levers fail usualy around the spindle which means the valve has had it ,where as a stopcock of fifty years old can often be repacked and go on for another fifty

 

[tamz]

The reason you see lots of leaking stop cocks is many will be fifty plus years old ive had levers fail usualy around the spindle which means the valve has had it ,where as a stopcock of fifty years old can often be repacked and go on for another fifty

That is well true. Any plumber should be able to repair a stopcock in 10 minutes (including *** break)

 

[fuzzy]

That is well true. Any plumber should be able to repair a stopcock in 10 minutes (including *** break)

Thats all very well tamz, but what if you dont smoke?

 

[tamz]

Phone a friend

 

[Colin68]

WRAS guide lines state the following for the premesis supply pipe ...'where should the stop valve be fitted' a) inside the premises b) above floor level c) as near as possible to the point entry d) to control the supply to the whole premesis and should NOT shut off the supply to any other premesis. As for a stopcock .. it states a stopvalve is required so a lever valve is ok and much better (in my humble opinion) ... (providing its the correct BS standard) .. not sure why it's position in the house had to change? .. as for backflow .. all connections to the cold water supply such as outside taps and appliances should have adequate B/F preventions built. Oh and a drain valve should be fitted inside directly above the stop valve .. hope this helps

 

[Kimou]

Due to him replacing the lead he probably thought it would be more accessible for you and less risk of freezing. It's not a bad thing he's done. Maybe incurred more work for himself. Sounds like a good guy :Angel_anim:

 

[Timbob]

Lever valves are good and easy to use, Yes.

However a stopcock that conforms to BS1010 should always be fitted to the incoming mains as the main main stopcock after that.

If you want an easier way of turning off your water than getting down to and turning the stopcock, have a surestop fitted.

 

[cr0ft]

Ok intrigued. Why does a stopcock need to be fitted after the lever valve? They restrict the flow into the house by around 50% straight off and showers and all contamination points have to have check valves in accordance with the water regulations. I was actually told by the guy teaching the water regulations course that there is no longer any requirement for a normal stopcock. Can you point me to something that says differently?

Backflow protection should be fitted just before the appliance where flow limitations of restrictive valves don't affect the whole house, surely this is just good design?

 

[dontknowitall]

I'm surprised at that advice (not fitting a stopcock). Sounds a little like not bothering with a switch on the consumer unit to turn off all the electricity.

What happens if a pipe's knocked or screwed into, just inside the house and the stopcock is 100 yards away down the drive and hidden under a holly bush? There'll be gallons chucked out before the water's stopped!! Having a stopcock inside is always a priority for me and if a house hasn't got one I advise them to have one fitted (by myself, of course!)

 

[Timbob]

Ok intrigued. Why does a stopcock need to be fitted after the lever valve? They restrict the flow into the house by around 50% straight off and showers and all contamination points have to have check valves in accordance with the water regulations. I was actually told by the guy teaching the water regulations course that there is no longer any requirement for a normal stopcock. Can you point me to something that says differently?

Backflow protection should be fitted just before the appliance where flow limitations of restrictive valves don't affect the whole house, surely this is just good design?

Sorry mate, didnt mean it to read the way it did, A stopcock should be fitted, with or without, a lever valve, if you want a lever valve aswell as then the lever valve can be fitted after the stopcock.

Having said that, it makes more sense to me to have a full bore lever valve instead as less restrictive etc... but they dont conform to BS1010 afaik so therefore has to be a stopcock.

 

[desrob]

Sorry mate, didnt mean it to read the way it did, A stopcock should be fitted, with or without, a lever valve, if you want a lever valve aswell as then the lever valve can be fitted after the stopcock.

Having said that, it makes more sense to me to have a full bore lever valve instead as less restrictive etc... but they dont conform to BS1010 afaik so therefore has to be a stopcock.

eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[helix]

Some stop cocks although with BS 1010/2 standard eventually will corode even made with DZR material. I've just replaced 2 in a block of flats, had to use pipe freezing machine because mains could not be turned off in any flat separately!

 

[TimSmall]

I'm digging up an old thread, I know, but this one comes up highly on google searches, and since I've had a recent discussion on this, I thought I should post here...

There is some really comprehensive info on the use of ball valves as the stopvalve for a premesis, and various other water-regs related info (check valves, strainers) in a document by Arrow Valves which I found (google for waterrregstutorial9-isolatingvalves.doc ).

... it's well worth a read, but a quick summary:

There is no longer any requirement to use the BS 1010 style stop-cock. The new regs only refer to "stopvalves", and this can be any suitable valve, including ball valves which conform to an appropriate British Standard (e.g. BSIKitemarked), or appropriate European standard, or the Regulator’sspecification (e.g. WRAS / KIWA UK).

Some ball valves incorporate a serviceable spindle gland nut, and PTFE packing, just like the traditional BS 1010 stop cocks do. IMO, these are the type to use as stopvalves. Some have serviceable o-rings instead. Many don't have any sort of serviceable spindle seal, and so are the aforementioned chuck-away-and-replace type...

I've nothing to do with arrow valves and have never (AFAIK) bought any of their stuff, BTW. They have some quite nifty looking ball valves with built-in easily-serviceable strainers, and check valves tho', which I might try and get hold of to give them a spin.

Ball valves shouldn't be used where there is a risk of freezing, as they're more prone to damage than stop-cocks are.

 

[lame plumber]

Personally I know that full bore lever valves have no back-flow protection, but as has already been said, water meters have backflow protection. As should showers and garden taps. I'm not convinced that stopcocks offer fantastic back-flow protection either. What I do know is I've been to countless jobs where I've had to repair leaking stopcocks. Never been to a job where I've had to repair a leaking lever valve yet.

If I'm ever replacing a stopcock then I always replace them with a lever valve. The only real downside I can see with these is you have to turn them off slowly, especially on a high pressure mains. Otherwise you can get fairly severe water hammer if the water is flowing when you turn it off.

Most lever ball valves are rated up to 10 bars, some are rated to 25 bars. As lead-free solder joints start to give up the ghost at about 10 bars I wouldn't worry too much about the ball valve failing on you!

if youve never seen a leaking lever valve you havent lived, they are prone to sticking if not operated reglarly such that the first time you close them the nylon bush inside breaks and theres water everywhere. Water regs still require a stopcock to my knowledge and its bad practice not to use the required item even if old ladies like them. standards as ever going to the dogs!

 

[TBServices]

Even if I was to fit a lever/surestop whatever, it would be after a proper stopcock.

 

[Mike Jackson]

if youve never seen a leaking lever valve you havent lived, they are prone to sticking if not operated reglarly such that the first time you close them the nylon bush inside breaks and theres water everywhere. Water regs still require a stopcock to my knowledge and its bad practice not to use the required item even if old ladies like them. standards as ever going to the dogs!

More a case of people not keeping up with the standards. Spherical ball valves are now permitted to be used as the main stop valve within a premises. Have a look at Arrow Valves Ltd - Water Regulations and read fact sheet 9.

 

[lame plumber]

as interpreted by s hockley grace working for a valve co, so some bias may be forthcoming, omho as is allowed on forums,

 

[Mike Jackson]

So Oh disbelieving one, how about information from the horses mouth. Have a look at Water Fittings and Materials Directory - Copyright of WRAS 2005 which lists WRAS approved lever valves and note that a lot of the valves have a note which states " Meets the requirements of a stop valve".

Perhaps this information will put this one to bed finally - lever valves are suitable for use as a stop valve and are listed as such in the WRAS water fittings directory.

 

[lame plumber]

if you cant have a little tease occasionally life a bore, happy to agree that lever valves are allowed, I own a copy ofwater regs guide and know that there is a small para saying lever valves may be used and also the all valves must be servicable. Being of an age where change is hard! (joking) I would rather repair a good old stopcock rather than trying to strip down a lever valve with some harder to see bits. My main hate of lever valves is once they fail its normally fairly catastrophic and you dont half get wet.

 

[otherwayup]

More a case of people not keeping up with the standards. Spherical ball valves are now permitted to be used as the main stop valve within a premises. Have a look at xyz and read fact sheet 9.

The way I read the fact sheet, ball valves are permitted, but backflow protection is also required. Therefore a separate checkvalve needs to be fitted, if a ball valve is used.

I mention this as I was hoping to replace my old stopcock with ball valve without having to change any pipework. No such luck.