Discuss Long boiler warranties? Worth it? in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

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I am thinking of upgrading our boiler and I have had a few installers out to quote and they all seem to either push their favourite boiler whilst knock the competition and then all mention the long warranties.

I got the impression they were only interested in fitting the boilers, the ongoing support was not their concern. Now this leads me onto the next point - has anyone come across a manufacturer that tries to weasel out of Boiler repairs by blaming the installer?

I know for the warranty to remain valid it needs servicing - but after having my boiler serviced - it was a 15 minute job, he put some probes in and said its running efficiently nothing else to do.

So how can manufacturers provide warranties if they cannot determine who fits their systems and who actually services them?
 
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Most if not all manufacturers now have long and decent warranties with some offering upto 12 years. It is up to the installer though to install the boiler to the manufacturers requirements. You can go on a specific manufactures website to get details of local approved installers. These installers will have been on training courses provided by the manufacturer so should do what is required to ensure warranties aren't void. The trouble is not all installers (approved or not) do what is required.
The biggest causes of voided warranties will be not keeping up with your services, even then the service engineer has to do it properly, the manufacturer will know whether it's been done properly or not. Then you have systems not flushed or inhibitor levels not maintained. And not using a system filter is also a get out clause.
So if your getting quotes off installers and they're not quoting for flushing the system with chemicals or using a primary circuit filter, just avoid them. Also avoid anyone who says the work will take them a day because they will be cutting corners to achieve this.
 

chris watkins

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I got the impression they were only interested in fitting the boilers, the ongoing support was not their concern. Now this leads me onto the next point - has anyone come across a manufacturer that tries to weasel out of Boiler repairs by blaming the installer?

So how can manufacturers provide warranties if they cannot determine who fits their systems and who actually services them?They can't & even if you belong to one of their schemes it won't help.
All of them will do anything to get out of the warrantee.

Just stop & think about it for a moment (You have I know) - how much profit is there to a manufacturer on the sale of a modern boiler ?
Well I can tell you not enough to cover the cost of an engineer attending because of a fault, that is for sure.
18kW system boiler cost around £860/70 at point of sale but it has been along a supply chain through at least 2 merchant what would they take £50 a time, what is the cost of production it has go to be £500 + so profit is £200-300 per unit & that has got to cover the R&D, testing, sales, profit as well as the technical cover & warrantee call outs.

Do you see any car manufacturers offering 10-12 year warranties & you don't drive a car every day of the year do you!!!

This is a full market con & one that repair companies understand all to clearly but Joe public continues to be taken in by.
 
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There is a vast market in non manufacturer warrantee/insurance just as there is in motor vehicles. Expecting a small outfit to get involved in expensive warranty/repairs is unrealistic
and is doomed to failure. To be
honest providing your manufacturer approved installer does it right, the first year is covered by law anyway, then just go to British Gas and pay a monthly amount, there are a few horror stories but they are massive and hungry for this sort of business and have massive resources...Then there is the question which manufacturer and what unit in essence that will be from your chosen approved installer. Baxi, Vaillant, are good, Ideal very popular and Worcester a fading star from years ago but BG will fix them all
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
 

chris watkins

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then just go to British Gas and pay a monthly amount, there are a few horror stories but they are massive and hungry for this sort of business and have massive resources...
Sorry Rob but clearly haven't had much contact with BG recently, from our experiences they don't want to fix anything, it is in & out quick as you can as they have 8 - 10 calls a day to get through. Servicing is FGA only.
And as for "massive resources" I am told they are loosing money on this side of the business & looking to off load it.

The quality of the engineers in London is shocking !! All the experienced ones have up & left, very unhappy bunch sick for having to hit sales targets for selling power flushing or SureStop tapes etc.
 

king of pipes

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Of course they are worth it any reputable installer will want to offer the best service possible and a long manufacturers warranty as back up should the boiler fail at any point, they can and often do at the most inconvenient times so for peace of mind its well worth it accredited installers often get priority breakdown service so their customers are often back up and running in a very short time. Kop
 
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Sorry Rob but clearly haven't had much contact with BG recently, from our experiences they don't want to fix anything, it is in & out quick as you can as they have 8 - 10 calls a day to get through. Servicing is FGA only.
And as for "massive resources" I am told they are loosing money on this side of the business & looking to off load it.

The quality of the engineers in London is shocking !! All the experienced ones have up & left, very unhappy bunch sick for having to hit sales targets for selling power flushing or SureStop tapes etc.
I agree with you totally, but they still are very cheap and if you are prepared to keep at them then you will get your boiler fixed (with compensation ) this is how we should use the uk health service. All my friends in BG have retired. The resources I refer to are the parts back up, call by 1600 next day its there by 08.00am and they will keep throwing parts at a unit until it works. No wonder centrica want to ditch BG.
I was advising just use them not care or love BG they are a poo organisation. centralheatking
 
OP
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So you get a boiler fitted by an approved installer and then serviced by anyone, then you have a fault and the company comes out and they say well well well, Install was not to spec and the servicing was shoddy - your warranty is void.

If this is the case then I might as well just put in an average boiler and put the money towards annual gas cover. So lower up front costs but more long terms running costs.

I wouldn't mind paying more initially and getting a boiler with a 10 yr warranty and servicing it every year will cost less over the life of the boiler (say 10yrs) but not if the warranty isn't worth what it's printed on.
 
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571C74BA-D2DB-4746-A47C-D42679FF4951.png
So you get a boiler fitted by an approved installer and then serviced by anyone, then you have a fault and the company comes out and they say well well well, Install was not to spec and the servicing was shoddy - your warranty is void.

If this is the case then I might as well just put in an average boiler and put the money towards annual gas cover. So lower up front costs but more long terms running costs.

I wouldn't mind paying more initially and getting a boiler with a 10 yr warranty and servicing it every year will cost less over the life of the boiler (say 10yrs) but not if the warranty isn't worth what it's printed on.
Does not work like that, the insurer/service company BG eg come out do an initial service , within 12 months check if its ok then you are good to go if not as its within 12 months go for the installer. So yes pick a medium boiler ...as you say ..they all go wrong sooner or later there are no rolls royce boilers anymore
I would have a second hand Archie Kidde all day long best boiler ever ...bit like a lister diesel engine but space can be an issue .and Mr Kidde died . Rob Foster aka centralheatking
 
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king of pipes

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So you get a boiler fitted by an approved installer and then serviced by anyone, then you have a fault and the company comes out and they say well well well, Install was not to spec and the servicing was shoddy - your warranty is void.

If this is the case then I might as well just put in an average boiler and put the money towards annual gas cover. So lower up front costs but more long terms running costs.

I wouldn't mind paying more initially and getting a boiler with a 10 yr warranty and servicing it every year will cost less over the life of the boiler (say 10yrs) but not if the warranty isn't worth what it's printed on.
No you get the boiler installed by a accredited installer set up a service plan with them you receive a email when it's due the boiler gets serviced any small faults get repaired , some boilers I fit even send me a message to me there is a problem with the boiler via a app it all about planing ahead and putting in place the tools to get you back up and running asap if the need arises with little or no cost, if all you are gonna pay is 10 years servicing costs on your boiler then it alot cheaper than a maintenance breakdown cover with the Bigger outfits . Cheers kop
 
OP
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Well has anyone come across that website owned by Bosch that does installs of their WB Boilers.

They seem very competitive with their prices and warranties - how can they do this unless they cut corners?

But this would harm their reputation as they back up the work with their own 10 year warranty.
 

chris watkins

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Well has anyone come across that website owned by Bosch that does installs of their WB Boilers.
They seem very competitive with their prices and warranties - how can they do this unless they cut corners
But this would harm their reputation as they back up the work with their own 10 year warranty.
What the public need to understand is a very large part of the industry consists of companies that can install you a new boiler or system but have no real interest in the on going care of it, oh yes, some are happy to come take your money once a year taking a sample of the gases out of the flue but not to carry out a "service" as required.

When things go wrong the so called engineers they send back neither have the skills, understanding or the time to fault find & repair the problems. Some may have a go after trying to speak to the manufacturers technical help line, waiting hour to speak to someone who has little more understanding than them, most will just give up straight away & tell you to call them out "as it is under warrantee"
That leave two side, the installer & the manufacturer, both will claim the other is at fault because they can!! Could you the customer tell who is right & who is wrong ? that leaves you paying more money out to get it fixed.

The trick is to find an engineer (a person not a large company) who will take ownership of the boiler & system, they will install but more importantly service & maintain it on going.
The one thing you can be sure of is a boiler manufacturer is only interested in one thing - selling the next boiler, worth remembering.
 
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The trick is to find an engineer (a person not a large company) who will take ownership of the boiler & system, they will install but more importantly service & maintain it on going.
The one thing you can be sure of is a boiler manufacturer is only interested in one thing - selling the next boiler, worth remembering.
I agree 1 million percent. I used to have a Gas Engineer - old school no mobile you had to call his home number which he picked up once in the morning and once in the afternoon. Bless him he has retired but he was honest and reliable as the summer days are long.

Now I am like most people trying to find good reputable engineer - so we do our web searches and check trade websites and then we call out a few but then think shall we pay that bit more and go with a company or even easier just get a boiler with a long warranty.

So we then try to take the engineer out of the equation by saying what is the most reliable boiler - so the manufacturer with the best marketing might win that argument.
 
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I agree 1 million percent. I used to have a Gas Engineer - old school no mobile you had to call his home number which he picked up once in the morning and once in the afternoon. Bless him he has retired but he was honest and reliable as the summer days are long.

Now I am like most people trying to find good reputable engineer - so we do our web searches and check trade websites and then we call out a few but then think shall we pay that bit more and go with a company or even easier just get a boiler with a long warranty.

So we then try to take the engineer out of the equation by saying what is the most reliable boiler - so the manufacturer with the best marketing might win that argument.
The most highly marketed manufacturer is Worcester Bosch but I learned today from an exec well placed that the new Black boiler is having massive problems along with the rest of the range and there are financial problems ahead for WB. centralheatking
 

Alk

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When I needed a replacement boiler, I found that there is also an important difference between boiler warranties and guarantees.
Only Worcester Bosch, Vaillant and Glow Worm currently offer a Guarantee.
When I read the terms and conditions from Worcester Bosch and Vaillant, there was less "wiggle room" in them.
When I was looking, I found this webpage to be extremely helpful in outlining all of the details; it is well worth a read: Find local installers that offer flexible ways to pay for an interest free boiler replacement, buy now pay later & 10 year plans.
 
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When I needed a replacement boiler, I found that there is also an important difference between boiler warranties and guarantees.
Only Worcester Bosch, Vaillant and Glow Worm currently offer a Guarantee.
When I read the terms and conditions from Worcester Bosch and Vaillant, there was less "wiggle room" in them.
When I was looking, I found this webpage to be extremely helpful in outlining all of the details; it is well worth a read: Find local installers that offer flexible ways to pay for an interest free boiler replacement, buy now pay later & 10 year plans.
Correct as is the difference between..
Fixed Price Quotation
&
Estimate
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
 

chris watkins

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When I needed a replacement boiler, I found that there is also an important difference between boiler warranties and guarantees.
Only Worcester Bosch, Vaillant and Glow Worm currently offer a Guarantee.
When I read the terms and conditions from Worcester Bosch and Vaillant, there was less "wiggle room" in them.
When I was looking, I found this webpage to be extremely helpful in outlining all of the details; it is well worth a read: Find local installers that offer flexible ways to pay for an interest free boiler replacement, buy now pay later & 10 year plans.
Fine words from all of them, unfortunately when their engineer is on site they seem to tell a different store.
Amazed that premium charging manufacturers are refusing a claim because it was one month over its service date or clear electrical problem but not accepted because system was apparently dirty. Now maybe this is not a dictate from the company themselves just engineers who can't be asked & want to get onto the next call but the damage it does to reputations, if I was them I be having a dam good look at what is going on.
 
OP
J
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Fine words from all of them, unfortunately when their engineer is on site they seem to tell a different store.
Amazed that premium charging manufacturers are refusing a claim because it was one month over its service date or clear electrical problem but not accepted because system was apparently dirty. Now maybe this is not a dictate from the company themselves just engineers who can't be asked & want to get onto the next call but the damage it does to reputations, if I was them I be having a dam good look at what is going on.
In this case, I might as well get the cheapest boiler fitted and when out of warranty get a service plan.

The cheapest option would be find a good installer, get them to fit and service the boiler annually and then put away £100 py for a rainy day fund for repairs and after 10 yrs you might have enough left for a replacement.
 

Riley

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In this case, I might as well get the cheapest boiler fitted and when out of warranty get a service plan.

The cheapest option would be find a good installer, get them to fit and service the boiler annually and then put away £100 py for a rainy day fund for repairs and after 10 yrs you might have enough left for a replacement.
Interesting take on it but I’ve known people who have had these so called budget boilers fitted and through no fault of the installer the owners have had problem after problem with boiler faults and have had to wait days for the manufacturers repair in the depths of winter. It’s hassle factor which with some of the better brands you ought not to get in a good few years if properly maintained
 

chris watkins

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In this case, I might as well get the cheapest boiler fitted and when out of warranty get a service plan.
The most costly option - more chance of break down & check out what a service plan will cost you!!

The cheapest option would be find a good installer, get them to fit and service the boiler annually and then put away £100 py for a rainy day fund for repairs and after 10 yrs you might have enough left for a replacement.
Absolutely spot on mate always the better option so long as you can find a good installer / serving / repair engineer.
 

Alk

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I agree with Chris and Riley. Let me link you to this article from Which? which adds further evidence to reiterate what they are stating: Could you cover the cost of a new boiler if yours broke? – Which? News
(please read the article in full)

Justice League said:
In this case, I might as well get the cheapest boiler fitted and when out of warranty get a service plan.
You aren't fully covered with boiler cover plans either, as they have exclusions for sludge:
sludge/scale/rust within the system or damage caused by any other chemical composition of the water;
 
OP
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This is the big issue - how do you know when you have found a good installer / heating engineer. Sure you can try the trade websites, facebook, recommendations etc

The problem is that most consumers will judge on price.
 

Riley

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And if they judge on price then in a lot of cases they haven’t got anyone but themselves to blame, if they’re not asking the right questions at least you’re doing the sensible thing and coming on here
 

chris watkins

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One good tip is to find companies who specialise in your boiler, not installing but repairing & servicing them as the bulk of their business.

You might even find some offering a fixed price repair or at least find out if you will still get charged if they can't / don't fix the problem you call them out for. Good ones will not charge if they don't fit it, stay away from those that want to make a charge.
 

Jerry

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I had an interesting chat a few years back with opne of the sales reps for a large maunfactuere. I remember two things:
  1. If they have to go out more than twice, under warranty, then they have lost money
  2. About 10% of warranties are lost each year becuase people have not had their annual service i.e 50% of 5 year old boilers have forfitted their warranties.
But is a long warranty worth it? Hmmmmm.

I would love a 10 year warranty on:
  • mobile phone
  • car
  • toaster
  • wife
  • tv
  • computer
  • carpet
  • tyres
  • you get my point
J
 
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I had an interesting chat a few years back with opne of the sales reps for a large maunfactuere. I remember two things:
  1. If they have to go out more than twice, under warranty, then they have lost money
  2. About 10% of warranties are lost each year becuase people have not had their annual service i.e 50% of 5 year old boilers have forfitted their warranties.
But is a long warranty worth it? Hmmmmm.

I would love a 10 year warranty on:
  • mobile phone
  • car
  • toaster
  • wife
  • tv
  • computer
  • carpet
  • tyres
  • you get my point
J
I would prefer a 20 year wife warrantee ..I am on my 3rd and they seem to wear out every two decades ...but as my latest observed that as I am 61 she is safe, as who the hell is going to look at me aged 82 and I agree
this one is a keeper
centralheatking
 

EvilDrPorkChop

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Interesting take on it but I’ve known people who have had these so called budget boilers fitted and through no fault of the installer the owners have had problem after problem with boiler faults and have had to wait days for the manufacturers repair in the depths of winter. It’s hassle factor which with some of the better brands you ought not to get in a good few years if properly maintained
Yes however we've also fitted budget boilers that have outlasted premium brands with very little repairs (Some by quite some way). Think it's luck of the draw. We've got one customer who has a CDI that's basically had a full new boiler in parts over 10 years, and another one that was fitted at the same time who's never had out go wrong, the latter never had it serviced in 10 years either :eek:. Luck.
 
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