Leaking shower pipe behind tiles?

[Rick74]

Hello,

I’d really welcome any informed/professional advice you can give me about a situation developing in my bathroom. We had the bathroom redone a couple of years ago but never installed an extractor fan as the room is small and we always fully open the box window after showering (I know this is insufficient).

Recently the paint on the wall in between the shower screen (which is attached on top of the tiles) and the window opening started bubbling and blistering. (See pictures) It started fairly close to the tiles and seems to be spreading outwards. At first I thought it was condensation and planned to install a fan but now I’m worried that it might be due to a leak in the shower pipe behind the tiles as it is developing quite quickly.

There isn’t any damage to the ceiling below the bathroom (no stains, sagging or dampness)and I can’t hear any dripping in the space behind the shower. However, I’ve read that leaks can occur in pipes where the cold and hot water mixes – and the shower handle seems to be in the ‘centre’ of the damage.
Obviously I don’t know what’s behind the tiles but would any water damage spread horizontally without impacting upon the ceiling below? Could it just be that it is the condensation?

We don’t want to have to start ripping out tiles as they are large expensive pieces rather than small squares, so I’d like to have a pretty good idea of what’s causing the problem before we go down that road.


View attachment 7198View attachment 7197View attachment 7196
Any ideas?

Many thanks in advance

Rick

 

[dave1]

Could it not be the shower screen leaking when water is hitting it whilst showering?
Give it a good spray up and down the joint where the screen meets the tiles and see if any water passes there, also check the grouting on that wall to make sure I'd complete and no gaps.
After that I'd be tempted to take the bath panel off, if the pipe work in the wall is leaking you'd expect too see some signs of leaking under the bath maybe. Good luck....

 

[Rick74]

Cheers Dave

I've checked the seal for the shower screen and it seems very tight and secure but I'll give it a good spray tonight. The grouting also looks good to the eye.

 

[mike-c]

It almost looks as if some kind of pva sealant on the wall under the paint is disintegrating. Is it a dedicated bathroom paint on the wall as it looks quite shiny?

 

[Rick74]

Hi Mike

My wife chose the paint! (naturally). I think it was from Fired Earth and she was advised that it was suitable for high moisture areas such as bathrooms and kitchens. I couldn't say exactly what type it is I'm afraid.

 

[Centralheatking]

It looks like damp forcing the paint off the reveal to the window. Theres loads of humidity
in a bathroom esp shower esp when its warm inside and cold near window.

So

I think the wall finish is NOT up to the job get a proper paint system to do it.

Just cause its Fired Earth paint means nothin anyway why dont you
tile it anyway ? if its such a good job I would tile the lot with good glue.

Anti fungal grout etc

centralheatking

 

[Phil]

Almlost certain there are no leaking pipes, you need to check for small hole and gaps in grout and silicone.

How many times a day is the shower used?

 

[stevetheplumber]

taking the plate of the showe rmixer might reveal something as well

 

[Destroyer2813]

As most of above start simple
Is the silicone between the screen and tiles still good spary there see

Take the bath panel off is there water staining under there

Is there any cracks in the grout on the wall tiles

Is the seal between bath and tiles still good

Start simple before presuming the worst process of elimination is required, and if you are on a water meter make sure no one uses any water and watch the needle if is spinning you may have a problem if not then you have disproved the theroy that you have a leaking pipe behind the wall

 

[rocketmanbkk]

silicone I go for, had it on my place abroad, had to re grout and silicone it myself to do a proper job.

Now just a walk in the park

 

[Rick74]

First of all - thanks all for your comments.

I've given the corner where the bath screen meets the tiles a good spray and nothing is coming through. Grouting and other seals look good. No visible holes.

We do have a water meter and so I've checked this and it isn't moving at all. So am I right in thinking that if there was a leak - even a small one - I'd be able to see the meter whirling round?

The shower gets used twice a day for about 10 minutes each.

We tiled the bath panel using the same tiles but did leave an access tile so I'll have a look under here as well. How would I go about removing the mixer plate?

Thanks again

Rick

 

[Rick74]

Thanks all

I've given the corner where the showe screen meets the tiles a good soaking and there's no leakage. Ive also checked grouting and checked for any holes and all seems fine.

We do have a water meter and there's no activity at all. Am I right in thinking that if there was a leak in the pipes - no matter how small - that it would be registering on the water meter?

We tiled the bath panel but left an access panel so I'll have a look in there as well. How would I go about removing the mixer plate?

Does the pattern of blistering on the photos above suggest that it might be a leak?

 

[Mike Jackson]

You're right about the meter. It will creep round if there's a leak on the mains. If the shower is tank fed the ball valve may not release instantly so it's possible that it wouldn't show up straight away.

I reckon condensation is the most likely cause though.

 

[mike-c]

If it is a leak it will be more than likely on the non pressure side of the shower so it would only leak after it is turned on. I take it the outlet is from a fixed head point. The connection there may need to be remade. It could also be something as simple as the shower handle backplate not being sealed to the wall and the water getting behind it whilst in use. Good luck either way.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

it looks like the paint was put on the wall without any undercoat and is just peeling off with the condensation

 

[petercj]

Try scratching into the plaster with a small screwdriver - if it's condensation, the plaster will become dryer the deeper you go, if it's a leaking pipe, chances are the deeper you go the wetter the plaster will be.

Whatever the cause, you will need to dry the plaster out thoroughly before repainting. If it was me, I would seal it first with UniBond, diluting as per instructions on the tin for use as a sealer. Then repaint using a good quality paint specifically made for bathrooms - Dulux is as good as any.

 

[Rick74]

Try scratching into the plaster with a small screwdriver - if it's condensation, the plaster will become dryer the deeper you go, if it's a leaking pipe, chances are the deeper you go the wetter the plaster will be

Hi Peter (or anyone else who may be able to answer this!)

Thanks for this advice. Ive tried this and I can only get about 2.5 mil deep before I hit the corner beading for the plaster. The plaster quality seems to be fairly consistent: soft and malleable, slightly damp but not wet. How deep would you expect the condensation to penetrate the plaster before you reach a dry part?

I cant seem to post pictures anymore or else I would show you what it looks like.

 

[AWheating]

did you use a primer/sealer before tiling? if so it could be that the paint never dried correctly due to being applied over primer and condensation is causing it to come away. i would make a finger sized hole in the wall and check the plaster is dry, if so then sand and repaint.

 

[petercj]

Just to avoid any confusion, if you use a vinyl based bathroom paint such as made by Dulux, UniBond Super PVA will be fine as a sealer/primer. Thin the first coat of Dulux slightly as instructions on the tin, when fully dry, re-coat as it comes from the tin.

What is essential is that the plaster is fully dried out before you apply the UniBond because it acts as a barrier to moisture, and if you trap moisture in with it, the chances are that the trapped moisture will lift it off again because it can't pass through it.

Which may well have been the issue with the paint you now have peeling off.

If there is any mould growth, treat that first thing and before applying the UniBond.

Properly applied Dulux bathroom paint won't peel due to steam - when my son gets in the shower the bathroom ends up like a sauna, and the Dulux doesn't budge, and there's not a trace of mould on it either.

It tends to be more expensive than some of the other similar brands, but its well worth the extra few pounds imo.

If you fit a powerful extractor it will pull out the warm air in your bathroom with the steam, which is something to bear in mind in the winter months.

 

[Rick74]

On further inspection this morning I can dig down to about 5mil and the texture of the plaster is the same. Slightly darker in colour than the plaster that Ive scraped away on the other side of the bathroom as a test spot. Does this indicate a leak do you think of would you expect condensation to penetrate the plaster that far?

I would post some photos but I don't seem to be able to upload them now! (and the images from the original post have dissappeared). All my posts need to be approved by a moderator before they appear so apologies if I seem to be turbo posting. (Also can't pm a mod to ask about it!)

Thanks again for input and assistance

 

[Rick74]

Here's a close up of where I've dug into the plaster

And here's the original pics from the original thread which seem to have been deleted. Any further advice welcomed.

 

[Rick74]

Hi there, unfortunately its taken 2 weeks for the above posts to be approved so I've lost momentum somewhat. Does anyone have any thoughts in light of the extra information I've provided above?

The paint bubbling/damage is still spreading.

Thanks in advance.

 

[petercj]

Did you take the shower plate off as suggested?

If you're not comfortable with doing that, I suggest getting someone in to work out what's going on.

Condensation shouldn't be a major problem this weather with the window open.

A damp meter, and a pipe detector would be useful if taking the shower plate off doesn't reveal the problem - if I were you I would get some opinions from a plumber, or maybe a builder who does plumbing as well.