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Discuss KWB easyfire 35 kw i need to pick some brains in the Renewable Energy area at PlumbersForums.net

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J

julesverne

Went to do a quote for central turns out They are having one of these big boys installed free of charge. With a 500 ltr thermal store.
All they need to do is supply the central heating system to heat the house.

Its for a five bed house which isnt the issue.
Ive tried looking on the website for details on whether this can be installed as a sealed system or open vented. It wont be heating water as they have an aga doing that.

im assuming as with all solid fuel systems it will have to be an open vented system but no can find no info anywhere. Does anyone have experience of these system.

all the customer has been told is they just need a flow and return at the boiler with no info supplied.


thanks in advance.
 
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D

Dotty

All my biomasses are on sealed systems.

The difference between these and solid fuel is that the fuel delivery is balanced against flow set point and oxygen level in the flue gasses meaning that they're that much safer.

That is, of course, very simply put there Jules.
 
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J

julesverne

Thanks John,

i'd better get busy with the quote.
 
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D

Dotty

You'll probably need to consider including a small pressurisation unit. I'm liking the Mikrofill EFD at the moment.

The EFD Simulator
 

gasmanrob

Plumber
Gas Engineer
I fitted an Armstrong Pu last week I quite liked it bit bigger then you'd need for average domestic but I'm sure they'd do a smaller one.

however I hate the boss therm/flamco ax units. We are not on talking terms right now
 
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Dotty

Flamco's? I've come across a few lately that I can't access. They just reset as soon as you put the code in.
 
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D

Dotty

Both codes, even tried the old engineers code.

Rang flamco and they said "hmmmm...."

Didn't fill me with a great deal of hope. Mind you, I got talking to them and it turns out they've only the one service agent over here. Bit of an opportunity I'm exploring.
 

gasmanrob

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Both codes, even tried the old engineers code.

Rang flamco and they said "hmmmm...."

Didn't fill me with a great deal of hope. Mind you, I got talking to them and it turns out they've only the one service agent over here. Bit of an opportunity I'm exploring.
Yes not brilliant the technical side or their ability to get back to you. The one that I really fell out with was an AMS. Rebranded flamco unit. AMS were really helpfull spoke to a guy called stefan who really helped but flamco on the other hand kept telling me it was one thing despite me telling them it couldn't be and the reasons why, it was like he'd hit the end of a script and had no where to go
 
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G

Gray0689

Went to do a quote for central turns out They are having one of these big boys installed free of charge. With a 500 ltr thermal store.
All they need to do is supply the central heating system to heat the house.

Its for a five bed house which isnt the issue.
Ive tried looking on the website for details on whether this can be installed as a sealed system or open vented. It wont be heating water as they have an aga doing that.

im assuming as with all solid fuel systems it will have to be an open vented system but no can find no info anywhere. Does anyone have experience of these system.

all the customer has been told is they just need a flow and return at the boiler with no info supplied.


thanks in advance.
Great boilers

Just you fit your side all normal sealed system
They just need to connect on to your flow & return from buffer
 
OP
J

julesverne

Went round again today for a measure up and somebody has quoted them for doing it all in plastic. Some people.
 

missplumb

Plumber
our local water bylaws state anything over 45kw needs a press unit. We had abig falling out with AMS/Flamco aswell. we had not end of trouble with the boss units and even got charged £450 by flamco after they cae to look at a unit that was reading a bar higher than it actually was! The engineer came, said the unit hadnt been correctly programmed at the factory and did it there and then. we then got the bill and engineers report saying our unit had been frazzled by a power spike and he'd replaced the whole control unit!!!!!
We now use the Mikrofil EFD's and Maxiplus units.
 

Worcester

Plumber
Went round again today for a measure up and somebody has quoted them for doing it all in plastic. Some people.
So you pointed him to this:
The British Plastics Federation Directive 2010
Solid Fuel Boilers & Cooking Ranges:
Pipes and fittings must not be used for primary or gravity circuits from solid fuel boilers, cooking ranges or other uncontrolled heat sources. Pipes and fittings should not be fitted to a sealed system oil boiler.
The above applies to all plastic pipes for heating.

You'll find the same text in the polypipe and speedfit installation instructions :)

That last sentence from the federation above will also wake up a few people!
 
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J

julesverne

So you pointed him to this:


The above applies to all plastic pipes for heating.

You'll find the same text in the polypipe and speedfit installation instructions :)

That last sentence from the federation above will also wake up a few people!
You got a link to that
 
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G

Gray0689

So you pointed him to this:


The above applies to all plastic pipes for heating.

You'll find the same text in the polypipe and speedfit installation instructions :)

That last sentence from the federation above will also wake up a few people!
Won't wake anyone up there is tens of thousands of systems over here done in plastic on sealed systems with oil boilers
And a lot of sites polypipe spec the system so work that out
 

Nostrum

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Biomass/ Pellet is usually classed as a controlled heat source so my understanding was that it is acceptable to use plastic in this situation (not that I would, avoid plastic like the plague)

Also, I have heard of this situation with oil boilers in the past, but have also heard manufacturers state you can use it. Never did understand why oil boilers were singled out, if you look at the class S conditions, they do comply with them. Unless they mean connecting up the oil supply with it! :speechless:
 

Worcester

Plumber
Won't wake anyone up there is tens of thousands of systems over here done in plastic on sealed systems with oil boilers And a lot of sites polypipe spec the system so work that out
Doesn't make it right .

We've spoken at length with both Polypipe and John Guest technical teams, and they won't approve their products for use on biomass systems - we wouldn't ever any way. We just had a third party doing the rads on a job and he was about to..

It's the same reason why both of them also don't allow it for DHW systems that use a secondary return.
 
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G

Gray0689

I said about oil boilers not biomass

An oil boiler is not an uncontrolled heat source
Yes an old oil range cooker
But a modern oil boiler is no different than a gas boiler
 
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J

julesverne

Guys thanks for all your inputs. Customer has gone for all copper pipework start 22nd may whilst there on their jollies happy days.
 
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J

JCSPLUMBING

Not all biomass are sealed. I recently installed a farm2000 and it was open vented from the boiler and the remote accumulator
 
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