Is this ridiculous (boiler serviced and flame adjusted with flue buried in snow)?

[Ric2013]

The boiler downstairs was serviced (not to be confused with the one with the gas leak - this is a separate boiler). The chap said the flame was not burning that well and so he readjusted it.

All seemed well.

Today I looked up at the house. Given that the downstairs boiler is never used, there had not been heat from the flue terminal to melt the snow. There was more snow when he carried out the service - some has since melted. So it would appear he's adjusted the boiler with the flue outlet three-quarters obstructed.

This photo shows the flue terminal in question (RIGHT) with a similar unobstructed flue visible for comparison (LEFT).



Am I correct in my thinking that the boiler is now unlikely to perform correctly once the snow melts? Or am I over-worrying?

 

[snowhead]

This is in Italy I assume?

Is that a flat roof or just very low angle on it?

So the person who "Serviced " the boiler didn't examine the flue prior to adjusting it, or did he / she send Stevie Wonder out to have a look at it?

You should be more than over worrying, you should be turning the boiler off, then clear the snow, then having the flue height increased, with suitable support to hold back the snow, to a height that would prevent this happening again
Not forgetting to have the boiler adjusted, probably back to where it was before.

 

[Ric2013]

This is in Italy I assume?

Is that a flat roof or just very low angle on it?

So the person who "Serviced " the boiler didn't examine the flue prior to adjusting it, or did he / she send Stevie Wonder out to have a look at it?

You should be more than over worrying, you should be turning the boiler off, then clear the snow, then having the flue height increased, with suitable support to hold back the snow, to a height that would prevent this happening again
Not forgetting to have the boiler adjusted, probably back to where it was before.

Yes, Italy.

To be fair, he did service the boiler and spent 90 minutes cleaning it, but the level of tests we have in the UK don't seem to be what they do here. You can't even do a leak test as there isn't a test nipple as far as I am aware. Which does not excuse not checking the flue was clear.

It's a very low angle roof. Designed to hold the snow because when several feet of snow slide off a roof it is genuinely dangerous.

That isn't the level the snow had slidden to. We genuinely had 2m of snow settling (that's just the dregs remaining that you can see in the photo), so no way of preventing the flues becoming covered, other than having the boiler alight when the snow falls.

That is not an open-vented flue, by the way. It's half of a (fan-assisted) balanced flue. They don't allow you to poke through the wall like we do in UK over here, so the inlet and outlet are split, with the outlet terminating as you can see.

Anyway, so you agree the boiler adjustment will be out?

I may just have the gas disconnected if I keep this place!

 

[snowhead]

Yes the adjustment will be out as the flue is not working correctly.
Is the air inlet on the roof under the box section that can be seen on the other flue or is it somewhere else?

 

[Ric2013]

The windows you can see are on the second floor; the air inlet is on the wall on the first floor, below the lower section of roof.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep flue pull can effect the combustion a lot would clear the snow and get him back

 

[Ric2013]

I'll wait for the snow to melt. Not risking getting thrown off a second floor roof for a boiler that isn't in use. Then I'll get him back, bless him.

 

[WC1]

Well done for spotting it. Out of interest what are the general regs for gas there (are there any?)

 

[Ric2013]

A gas boiler MUST be serviced every year (or two?) and the relevant tax paid. Same for oil (diesel) boilers. In practice, gas boilers are easier to monitor as you have a gas bill, whereas oil boilers can disappear from the books if they are very old.

My father was of the opinion that it was cheaper to pay the fines, and, in fairness, the two gas boilers here were last serviced (until now) 7 and 11 years ago. As actually catching up with people is slightly beyond the Italian government at times, and, as it often it takes over 20 years to take a court case to fruition (by which time the crime is deemed to have expired), fines are not always paid.

The oil boiler does not meet current energy efficiency standards so cannot be deemed fit to use. Since it is 49 years old, it seems to have been forgotten about, and since it cannot be serviced officially, I have to clean out the heat exchanger as no one else can do it. Quite how it can be forgotten about when I ordered 1000 litres of low temperature diesel @ €920 delivered this winter (price subsidy obtained by showing my identity card due to being in a non-methane area), I don't really understand.

An oil boiler cannot be in the house as such : it must in a separate room that can be accessed from an external door only.

The interesting thing is that quite a lot of the requirements, including energy effieciency, are retrospective and there are no grandfather's rights. So there must be a programmable thermostat (or separate programmer, presumably) and minimum efficiency levels.

After the service, you have to pay a specific separate tax and the boiler logbook has to be updated. They ask the cubic metres of the house, but, in practice this information gets made up as nobody cares provided the form is completed. Recently, the logbooks were all renewed as a new design came in, so that gives service technicians more paperwork as they completed new logbooks for everyone. In my case, the tax was paid by the guy who did the service on my behalf (I think!).

The Italian government will pay you back for a lot of the costs of boiler replacement. I'm not sure if they discount that off income tax or give it to you. Apparently, what you can sometimes do is find a firm that will do the work essentially for free and you give that firm the government incentive. The problem is the level of paperwork is offputting to the extent (and sometimes the government just says, sorry, we ran out of money for this incentive) that my father preferred to keep the 50-year old diesel boiler rather than replace it. A new gas combi to connect to existing fan coils for the shop was quoted at around €6000 due to the cost of a new stainless steel chimney to the roof above the second floor being required.

I'm not sure exactly what tests are done during a gas service and inspection here. They seem to clean the boiler, FGA, and inspect the internal flue IIRC. Obviously not the external . I can only imagine there is so much paperwork that they make most of it up back at the office afterwards - the firm I used has two technicians, but it has its own office with a lady behind the counter for the entirety of a normal working week, so I can only assume the administration takes as long as the service!

 

[snowhead]

When I was searching for the Italian regs yesterday, which I didn't find, I noticed it says boilers to be serviced every year and FGA every 2 years, then certificate in the logbook and copy sent to what must be the equivalent of the Local authority.
I did find a comment on a flue manufacturers site saying many Countries in Europe (don't know which) no longer allow flues out of side walls, they all have to be through the roof.
Presumably to avoid condensation nuisance but as with Ric2013 and deep snow it seems completely the wrong approach.
It may be that they have to be a certain height, or on the ridge to allow for snow.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

I did find a comment on a flue manufacturers site saying many Countries in Europe (don't know which) no longer allow flues out of side walls, they all have to be through the roof.

We'd be in trouble if they did that here in the UK

 

[Ric2013]

We'd be in trouble if they did that here in the UK

Because flats in the UK each have their own boiler?

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Because flats in the UK each have their own boiler?

Yes, and in general the majority of boiler flues in the UK, in most houses exit through a side wall.

 

[Ric2013]

Yes, and in general the majority of boiler flues in the UK, in most houses exit through a side wall.

I know that. But if the law changed, then we'd have to start running them differently. Gas installers would tool up or subcontract the work and boiler replacement costs would increase. I'm not quite sure why you say we'd be in trouble though.

Am I just overthinking a joke?

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

More overthinking a joke

But in reality, to move most boilers to use a vertical flue would be a nightmare

 

[gmartine]

Tell the servicing gas man to stand out on the balcony while you give that roof a tap.

 

[Ric2013]

Anyway, to complete the story, he finally turned up to replace the gas valve on the another boiler today, having finally managed to get hold of the part. While he was here, I had a chat with him and showed him the picture of the other boiler's flue buried in snow, so he agreed to have a look at it as he agreed it could be an issue.

He didn't actually do a FGA as not a condensing boiler (it's an efficient boiler but not as efficient as a condensing one) but looked at the flame picture, said it was acceptable if a little low, tweaked it up slightly and seemed to be happy with it.

Seems what he'd adjusted last time was the gas rate/burner pressure (the flame height - apologies if I don't have the right technical term) and not the gas/air mix which was what I had assumed he had adjusted.

Given that mains gas is actually a propanated air mix which seems to be inconsistent in its qualities (instead of natural gas or methane), I'm happy with this outcome. If the mains gas is inconsistent, my feeling is that adjusting to the nth degree is only really worth doing if you're going to recheck it hourly. In any case, the lady who occasionally rents the flat refuses point blank to actually turn the boiler on as she prefers to heat using wood because 'gas is expensive' (I have a private belief that she actually showers in cold water, but that's her business).

 

[Chuck]

(I have a private belief that she actually showers in cold water, but that's her business).

You should try it yourself. You'll find it most invigorating. If you're soft, start with the shower warm and then gradually dial down the temperature.

 

[Ric2013]

You should try it yourself. You'll find it most invigorating. If you're soft, start with the shower warm and then gradually dial down the temperature.

I do, sometimes, at the end of a shower, but I wouldn't want my entire shower with full-on cold, particularly when the water is entering the house just above freezing temperature (in winter).

I have swum in Swedish lakes (in summer) which wasn't too bad.